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What Makes you feel POWERFULLY?

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by FlasherMXer, Feb 16, 2003.

  1. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    :wtf:

    Where does this idea that guerilla warfare is invincible come from? It makes no sense at all. Guerilla warfare is a practice of conventional war with modified tactics. You have organized troops with standard military equipment, but with a less centralized structure and a much more defensive posture in combat. Troops are limited in supply, they are not unassailable. The U.S. Army infantry fights its physical battles like a guerilla force, we are very defensive by practice, but the CCC is more like a centralized, traditional military. We can maintain our traditional structure because of our technology, and in this layout and with said technology, we actually have a double advantage.

    You're probably thinking more of a resistance movement than an actual guerilla war. I would say though that the chances of the Iraqis resisting us are near nil, they seek to benefit from Saddam's removal.

    I suppose you would say we lost in Afghanistan? I haven't heard of an attack against any U.S. base in months, and the people are better off. Afghanistan is probably one of the most friendly countries to us in the world right now.
     
  2. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    i think it makes perfect sense. How can you have a decisive victory against an enemy that won't directly confront you?
     
  3. Elbereth

    Elbereth MSC Commander and Donator

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    Find the leaders. Then they lose quickly.
     
  4. MisterHalleck

    MisterHalleck Peasant

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    you can't. You just kil and kill and kill the guerilas until resistance becomse negligible. You never know when you're done... that's why Vietnam took so long.

    edit: and we still lost!
     
  5. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    it really depends on your definition of "victory."
     
  6. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    Once the guerilla army is gone, you may end up with a resistance movement similiar to that of France in World War 2. It's sort of like terrorism, except it's only against military targets. For example, they would blow up railway lines supplying German troops on the English Channel before D-Day. This is much more underground, not a direct military action. Guerilla troops carry guns, they fight directly, they will be killed in military action. Eventually guerillas run out.

    Even resistances eventually fizzle out over long periods of time, if the resistance is the minority. If there is any resistance in Baghdad at all, it will surely be the minority.

    Militarily, we did not lose Vietnam, we simply stopped fighting.
     
  7. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    i don't consider vietnam to be a loss or a victory, only a waste of money. Guerilla wars are always a waste of money because they drag on forever until one side gets tired of fighting.
     
  8. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

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    The reason guerilla´s are very hard to beat is that the soldiers of the force looks like the civilians. They can easily hide among other people.
     
  9. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    That's not how guerilla warfare works, that's a resistance force like I described. Two very important examples of guerilla warfare are both the American Revolution and the Viet Cong.

    The American Militias were decentralized (organized per state), but had a definite command structure, bore standard weapons, and wore standard uniforms. They employed more defensive tactics in engagements, hiding behind obstacles before taking fire, and ambushing forces of superior numbers.

    The Viet Cong operated in a similiar fashion. They had a decentralized leadership, but still a standard command structure. They carried AK's, RPG's, and other modern weapons, and had military uniforms. They would ambush troops or fight under heavy cover in the jungles.

    This is how a guerilla force operates. You're thinking of something else than this. The closest thing to what you're describing is probably some of the organizations in Palestine (when they attack IDF soldiers, not civilians). They work in cells, have very little leadership, do not wear standardized uniforms, sometimes do not use standard implements of war (suicide bombs), but will attack IDF forces in small groups (the oft used term "Palestinian Gunman"). Unfortunately this isn't a perfect example since the same organizations in Palestine are terrorist organizations, but what you're talking about is more like a resistance movement that only targets combattants.
     
  10. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    i studied the american revolution last semester, and that's not how it was. Yes, there were several "open" engagements, but many resistance "soldiers" would strike at night, and the next day they would blend with the civilian population. They didn't have uniforms, and didn't always have standard weapons. These people had a name, but I forget what it was.

    towards the end of the revolution, there were lots of nightime engagements like this. That's why Britain couldn't win, because there were no decisive victories to be had.
     
  11. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    Eh? All the important battles took place during the day, Lexington and Concord, Bunker Hill, Brandywine, Trenton, Princeton, Yorktown, Guilford Courthouse, Saratoga. The only battle I know of that took place at night was the Battle of Fort Ticonderoga.

    Are you thinking of Minutemen? That was a nickname for the Militia. They didn't have standard uniforms, but they did generally carry muskets, mostly captured British models. They operated just like in The Patriot, which is an extreme form of guerilla warfare. You saw that after the British began protecting their supply routes with garrisons and cavalry, the militia weren't nearly as succesful. The Continental Army had standardized uniforms and a traditional military organization, but they still used more guerilla-like tactics in battle, taking cover and attempting to flank and/or ambush the British.
     
  12. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    it's a question of motivation. What did the colonies have to do to win?
     
  13. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

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    My view of guerilla warefare might be twisted, I still think my point is valid, and I still think they´ll have a hard time really winning.
    You are the one with the military family, so I guess you would know. When I think of guerilla warfare I think of ambushes, sabotages and assasinations. Open engagment can never be won by a guerilla force, and are therefore avioded.
    And they usually cannot afford uniforms, therefore they don´t wear any.
     
  14. Beeble

    Beeble Peasant

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    sleeping while i have the flu makes me feel powerfully.
     
  15. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    for me right now it's hocking up snott from a head cold and seasonal allergies (almond blossoms own me)
     
  16. Beeble

    Beeble Peasant

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    Ice Man owns j00
     
  17. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    That's a mix of traditional guerilla warfare and more of an underground movement. What you described though is not going to happen in Iraq.

    I don't have a military family either ;). One of my uncles is in the Air Force, he's a communications expert, works on surveillance and stuff, but considering that he's one of 8 uncles I don't think that qualifies me for a military family :).
     
  18. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

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    hmmm :banghead: Jedsia isn´t even in this discussion...
    I`m a :retard:
    Jedsia is the one with the military family
     
  19. Beeble

    Beeble Peasant

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    You know what else makes me feel powerfully? recovering from the flu.

    Know what else? Going to bed for 3 hours in the middle of the day while having the flu.

    else? getting 2nd place or better in a CS game.

    else? falling asleep at 11 o'clock at night even though the dog had been barking ecstaticly for an hour.
     
  20. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    Stop saying "makes me feel powerfully". That's totally incorrect grammar.
     

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