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Too bad...

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Haite, Jun 2, 2002.

  1. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    how does steven hawking know about outside the universe. that still doesn't prove anything about god's realm or whatever though.
     
  2. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    Read the book.

    My point is that wherever God lives, there's no laws to measure anything, this is given because laws are finite. If there are no laws, then there are no properties, and therefore all things are moot. The whole argument was absurd in the first place because its based on the laws of our universe, which have limit. You cannot create an object in our univese that's infinitely heavy. If God were to create something in our universe it would be of finite size, so he could always lift it. That's something that even our human science accepts and somehow you guys are still bantering about a statement which doesn't even make sense.

    --Haite
     
  3. dapork

    dapork Peasant

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    :rolleyes: you obviously know nothing about the big bang theory.
     
  4. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    Au contraire. There is no single big bang theory anyway, but rather several theories that focus on a cataclysmic explosion that spawned the universe. All of which have different ideas as to what happened before the explosion., so check your info before insulting me.

    --Haite
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2002
  5. aleldtritch

    aleldtritch Peasant

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    if a God created the Universe, what created him?
     
  6. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    god is supposed to be the beginning.
     
  7. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    That's a problem no one can yet solve, the uncreated creator. So from a deist point of view, the supreme being is always the infinite. From the atheist point of view, the universe is the infinite (which has an infinitessimely small chance of being the case).

    The only way the universe could be the infinite is if one of the big bang theories, that is very unlikely, were the case. It's a given that our universe will probably collapse in several billion years, its continued expansion will eventually turn to contraction. The theory supposes that there was another universe before ours; that when it collapsed its matter closed in as if to shrink to infinite density, but instead just missed hitting itself and passed by, spreading outwards again.

    I would propose a problem with this theory: that there is finite energy in the universe. Much as when you start off a Newton's cradle and it eventually stops, so the universe would eventually stop its self-recreation, due to gravity and friction.

    --Haite
     
  8. aleldtritch

    aleldtritch Peasant

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    what about Occam's Razor? it's much more reasonable that the Universe has existed since before time than it is that a fantastic God with supreme powers created the Universe without any motive and has yet to provide actual proof to beings that could comprehend it that he did so...
     
  9. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    that's just a way of thinking... a different standard for knowledge.
     
  10. aleldtritch

    aleldtritch Peasant

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    er, yeah...i wasn't using it as a law or anything...more like i'm just stating that it's a common way of thinking
     
  11. dapork

    dapork Peasant

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    originally posted by Haite [/i]


    Au contraire. There is no single big bang theory anyway, but rather several theories that focus on a cataclysmic explosion that spawned the universe. All of which have different ideas as to what happened before the explosion., so check your info before insulting me.

    --Haite
    [/QUOTE]
    i don't insult without motive. i said what i said cause one of the theories of the big bang say that before there was the bang, there was another universe, and before it, another big bang. meaning there was no room for god as you say. you seem aware of the fact that there are severale big bang theories, so specify which one you mean before going deep into it, cause they're all completely different.
     
  12. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    Okay Dapork, sure :rolleyes:.

    I disproved that theory too because you would need infinite energy to continue such expansion and contraction indefinitely. The universe has a finite energy supply in all its matter.

    --Haite
     
  13. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    ...and what about the Uncertainty Principle? It relates to quantum mechanics, but it's still a good example that we can't apply Occam's Razor to everything.

    That the universe is infinite is just as unlikely as it being finite and being acted upon by an outside force.

    --Haite
     
  14. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    It's also accepted into the same standard as human scientific assumption. So unless you plan on providing your own proof for your standard rather than citing given scientific knowledge, it applies.

    --Haite
     

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