Discussion in 'MSC Clan' started by Lurk, Dec 2, 2005.
Very good article.
Two points in that article stand out for me:
Re: "time invested = wealth and power."
I have always thought that WoW's biggest flaw is that it caters to hardcore players. Blizzard claims otherwise, but everyone still lusts after end-game epics because they make such a huge difference in many aspects of the game, yet they take a huge time investment to aquire. I resolved this conflict for myself by deciding not to raid and accepting that my character will never be the best because of that. If WoW truly caters to casual players as Blizzard claims, then I would not have to make this concession.
Blizzard will be shifting the end-game focus to 5-man winged dungeons in the expansion. That might help this problem.
Re: player-made content.
I have created my own content by leading a guild and focusing a lot on the social aspect of the game. I have built a rep for myself and many people know and respect me. That is satisfying.
Player housing was a form of player-made content that was originally planned, but that feature was delayed and now it doesn't even appear on the "under development" page like it used to:
I noticed hero classes have also been removed.
I noticed this as well and I am VERY disappointed by it. As a matter of fact these were two reasons I was really attracted to WoW in the first place.
I think Zul'Gurub was meant to be the "casual player" alternative, much of the loot in there is on par with set drops in Molten Core. The weapons off of Hakkar are a tiny hair below drops off of Ragnaros, and the quested sets are in some ways superior to tier 1 epics. A 5-man instance with the sort of epics it seems like you're after wouldn't be possible for players fresh out of ubrs, or at least it shouldn't. Players who invest the time to learn the encounters and spend the gold on repairs SHOULD have items thats 2-3 steps ahead of the people who logged on and wandered into a pickup group in ironforge/orgrimmar.
ZG is debatable. I still consider it to be a raid guild instance with a high overhead.
You are right, more time invested should have rewards, but that is off the point.
ZG may have been meant to be the casual player's answer to MC, but it hasn't been that way, at least not on Hyjal. How often do you see a PUG running ZG anymore? It happened the first week or two after it was out, and that was it. The same will happen to the AQ 20-man.
I agree with Jake, 95% of end game content is geared toward semi-hardcore to hardcore players. If you're not in that group, once you get to 60 and get all the loot you can out of Scholo/Strath/BRS, you're "done," unless you play for the social aspect that Jake mentioned. I run instances with MSC because I enjoy playing with them, not because I need the items.
I confess that it bums me out a little seeing people with whom I've enjoyed playing leaving MSC for greener (purpler?) pastures, be they raid guilds or different servers. That's fine and I do not begrudge them, but it makes my own experience all the less enjoyable because of it.
I think that is most of us in the 60 range.
Agreed, it's left me a bit disappointed to. As you say though, we cant begrudge them. They are paying for the game and should get what they want out of it. I always thought loyalty was a bit stronger here though. I admit I have alts I play as well on other servers just to be with friends for a bit but this is most assuredly my main.
ZG doesn't work because it seems to take more than one day to complete. I might be wrong but thats what I thought. If that is in fact the case, then the whole reason ZG doesn't work is because a PUG cannot possibly work over a two or three day raid. There needs to be a 15 or 20-man instance that can be done in less than 4 hours.
I did have alot of fun playing with you guys, but as already been stated the game is geared toward the hardcore to have any real advancement or content that hasn't been done over and over.
The reason I'm playing on Frostmourne atm is because of the world pvp. It has brought fun back into WoW for me. Until Blizzard creates more content for the casual players I'll be playing on Frostmourne, unless the guild needs my warlock or priest on Sat or Sun. Like the DM West run where I'll be bringing my Lock.
I may join you over there again sometime, but an Oceania server is way out of sync time wise for me. Redmane (Fire's rogue twin sister) is still there, but she also exists on Magtheridon (EST PvP server), which is where I've been playing her.
i've only done ZG 4-5 times, i spend most of my "off" time in battlegrounds or roaming high level zones looking for people to annoy.. but none of them ran longer than 4 hours and we started with fresh instances.
True. You can do ZG in 4-5 hours once perfected, just like you can do MC in 2 hours.
There are athletes than that can do the mile in under 4 minutes. The current land speed record is 763mph (mach 1.02). The hot dog eating record is 50 hot dogs in 12 minutes.
I've done ZG with PUG before and we spanned it over 2 days. Only managed to kill 3 bosses with a PUG but it's doable unlike MC where you can't kill a boss unless you have 40 (PUG of course, you can Lucifron with 20 guildies). Also it's easier to get to a boss in ZG than it is in MC. Mobs in MC are like mini-bosses to PUG but mobs in ZG are just like those in UBRS/LBRS except for a few level difference.
I don't ever plan on leaving MSC because of the friend's I've made and all the help I've received. However, I do want to do raids every now and then. I think we should work again at doing joint raids with other small guilds. I'm super busy with fraternity and school right now but come winter break, I can probably help with finding other guilds to do raids with.
Underhill guild expressed interest in co-op ZG after seeing me lead the Roman'Khan raid (they had some people in that raid). I have known a few of their core members since the beginning. I think the implication is that they want to provide bodies for a ZG raid that I will lead.
They said they don't have a website, but that they will refer their leader to me. I haven't heard anything yet.
We could also look at what's left of Unbroken Circle (Sleet's old guild). We've raided with them in the past. One of their mages said they'd probably be interested in doing it again.
I'd like to go there again.
Oh just thought I would add something about the lull. This was posted on the WoW forums and I completely agree.
IMO, these countless raids of the same boring stuff gets old after a while. It adds to the lull, people get bored and still quit. I would rather stay with friends, have fun, pvp, do meaningless anything, whatever, just to keep my interest in the game. You have purple and i have blue...so what? I still gank the crap out of 70% of the epic wearers in battlegrounds anyways. Opinions?
I'm just saying we should try to do joint raids every once in a while just to keep things fresh and interesting. There are still so many areas of this game that I haven't even seen yet.
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