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paladin skills questions

Discussion in 'MSC Clan' started by Rhys, May 3, 2001.

  1. Rhys

    Rhys Peasant

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    Local Paladin gurus, your input is needed!

    I'm building a new paladin, might run him to level 80 might lose interest in him at level 23 and a half, but I'd like to be working his skills correctly in any case. People I talked to on b.net were like "oh save all of you points and get maxed out blessed hammer and concentration" or "4 levels of zeal and everything you can dump into redemption" or "thorns baby"! None of them liked my 4 levels of sacrifice and 4 levels of prayer and I guess I can see why now.

    So I started over and I'm at 5 the level (i think). I've got a point in prayer and a point in sacrifice and I havent spent the rest. Keeping in mind that I'd like to be an effective solo player as well as a good team player, plus the fact I don't really want to hoard -all- of my points through level 30, what would you all recommend I do with my skill points as I advance?

    Take you time, explain clearly (I'm dense), and thanks!

    RhysLyle the Paladyn
     
  2. Moose

    Moose Peasant

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    Ok, first let me start out by saying that I do have a lvl 66 hammerdin and he is fun, sometimes. But you really need to figure out what you want your pali to do. I started a pali that is going straight with concentration and zeal. I will max out concentration, both for me and for others when I do team play, but will not put more then 4-5 points into zeal. Since there is a server synch problem with the pali "wiffing" on most swings, it is not necessary to raise it too much higher than that since you will just miss more.

    There is talk that in the expansion some of the skills may be modified so that part of the skill will boost the AR of the character. Now the only way to do it is to use bless which is not bad, but you need a high damage weapon to compensate for not using concentration. So it may be wise to use this character as a test character and wait to build a real one after the modifications (if any) take place.

    Another skill that is great is (and underused) is holy shield. This will let you turn any shield into a defence and block % powerhouse (and of course a little extra smite damage which is nice!). Make sure that you realize that the max block % is 75 regardless of what is reported. Finally, at least one point in both redemption and salvation since they are 2 great things to use if you need them.

    I really have not experimented beyond what I listed above. I scatter the remaining points here and there. I am guessing there are a lot of great combos that are out there. See what else gets thrown at you.
     
  3. Autolycus

    Autolycus Forum Moderator

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    holy shield underused? maybe in carebear, but you never see a paladin without it in hardcore. you dont see many of the martyrdins (sacrifice/prayer) around, since killing yourself isnt a good idea.

    i would never put more than 2 points into zeal since any more tends to miss too often.

    hammerdins are boring but effective, if you want to slay hordes of enemies easily, thats the way to go.

    im starting to see more and more vengeance/conviction paladins running around since they can level in chaos sanct without fear of IM because a good chunk of their damage is elemental..
     
  4. dapork

    dapork Peasant

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    i've tried severale different pali types, i personally think hammderdins r the best. for that save all ur points to max blessed hammer and concentration. put like 2 points in thorns, 10 in holy shield and a bunch in redemption (up 2 u). hammerdins work good solo, and great when partying, people like concentration especially zons and barbs... the only bad thing is hammerdins suck at dueling. it's kinda hard cuz u gotta save all ur points till lvl 18, so its boring at the beginning but then it pays off

    after that i recommend a zealot or chargedin (both using conc), but i don't think they're as good, but dont make a pali that uses only thorns
     
  5. Onisama

    Onisama Peasant

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    :rolleyes:

    or if you decide to go all thorns be sure to add conversion when you get to it.
    That technique is slow, not good for team play, but can be fun if you are into the "sit back and let the minions do the work for you" mode.

    Here is what we could use Olon for. Good paladin advice. No offense intended to any of the other paladins out there, but O is the master. :)
     
  6. Moose

    Moose Peasant

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    Ain't that the truth.
     
  7. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    pallys need to have a "Holy Shit" aura. They go around farting and craping all over the place and every monster within a 100' radius suffocates to death. :D
     
  8. charlybrown

    charlybrown Peasant

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    Here is a summary!!

    1) Conc+Blessed Hammer+Holy Shield+Redemption = Hunter
    This type of paladin is good for hunting, you play only in outer steppes and plaines of despair, you gather all monsters, cast your holy shield, get on concentration, you clear out the area in 5 minutes. Stya picky of bosses, don't wate time on them.

    2) Conc+Charge = Challenger
    This type of paladin is a great challenge, because he has no crowd control at all, and most of the time you want to use a 2 handed weapon to be able to pull your dmg above 3000. It is very dangerous to gather enemies playing this style. Consider using a one handed ancient sword in hc for safety with a shield (holyshield optional)

    3) Zealot+Concentration = Suicider
    Zeal is bugged and blizz didn't fix it yet. If it wasn't bugged, you can survive pretty good if you have enough life steal, because of the desync problem, you can't always hit and lvl of zeal will lock you still until all hits are done or until you receive a dmg higher than the 1/12 of your max hp so you get stun.

    4) Conviction+vengence+holy shield = magical slayer
    Conviction works like the cold mastery of the sor, it reduce the % of the resistance the monster already have, so if enemy have no resistances it doesn't work, if enemy has resistances, it will never drop to 0. Works the same way for defence. The improvement of this skill will make the magical slayer a lot more useful, because resistances will be reduced to the negative, thus taking extra damage.

    5) Concentration+zeal(lvl 4 max)+charge+holy shield+blessed hammer+Conversion = fantasy slayer
    Basically, you employ the right skill at the right time. Zeal helps you with mana recovering with a bat ring or weapon, charge is used when only one enemy is left or a boss with MSLE etc... Blessed hammer is used for crowd killing. Conversion is used as a shield, but don't depend on it too much. The only skill you want to max is concentration, the rest will stay low because of skill point entropy into all the skills. This style will probably be enhanced with the arrival of expansion. His versatility is comparable to the amazons...
     
  9. Onisama

    Onisama Peasant

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    a few comments on that summary.

    you forgot at least 3 type of pallys (and mislabeled a few)

    one need to always remember that Chuck _only_ plays HC, and that his comments don't always translate into carebear.

    keep some salt handy
     
  10. charlybrown

    charlybrown Peasant

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    sorry for that

    may I ask you which didn't I include and which I misspelled?
     
  11. Onisama

    Onisama Peasant

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    you can ask. :evil:



    what about
    conversion/thorns - thornadin
    sacrifice/prayer/redemption - Martyr
    smite/might - smackadin


    and I never said misspelled. just mislabeled

    zeal/conc is usually referred to as a zealot
    BH/conc is your hammerdin
    charge/anything is referred to as a charger or (more lamely) a chargedin

    we don't want to confuse people now. :)
     
  12. charlybrown

    charlybrown Peasant

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    was late for class when I wrote that summary :)
     
  13. Gilgamesh

    Gilgamesh MSC Footman

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    Well, I like playing Paladin's, and here are the two that i have made:

    Al"Thaor - Lvl 66 US East Hammerdin
    lvl 25 Blessed hammer
    lvl 26 Concentration
    lvl 8 Holy Shield
    lvl 10 Thorns
    lvl 7 Salvation
    lvl 7 Redemption
    Max Damage per Hammer: 1124-1168 (each hammer is 7 mana)

    Mac_GilMila - Lvl 43 USEast Zealot
    lvl 22 Concentration
    lvl 6 Zeal
    lvl 3 Sacrifice
    lvl 10 thorns
    lvl 5 Holy Shield
    ** still have 3 points to place...maybe turn into a Sacrifice/Thorns guy
    1-Handed Battle Hammer
    3D Pavise
    7 attacks per round... max damage: 380-588 per hit (80% chance to hit)



    ** I go nowhere without holy shield on... turns my pavise into Def 128, Block 75%, Resist all 57%

    ** Hammerdins are very cool, but take time to learn how to cast hammers to hit effectively...and they aren't the best at duelling, but not the worst either....people have to come at you thru your hammers...

    •• Zealots are cool, too, but you neeed high AR to make sure you land most of your hits... although you do miss fairly often, too...
     
  14. Onisama

    Onisama Peasant

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    Gil! where have you been?!


    I think I would hold off on adding sac or thorns. The way things are looking you might want to drop them into fanaticism.
     
  15. Gilgamesh

    Gilgamesh MSC Footman

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    Hey Oni... my connection at home has been down for 2 damn weeks!!! :uzi: Comcast :rocket:

    It should be back up hopefully by the weekend, but who knows?? :distress:

    When it gets back up, maybe we can hook up and do that major x-fer thing we were talking bout. :nod:

    BTW: I picked up George RR Martins "A Game of Thrones"... only read about 30 pp so far (seems good, but we'll see...)
     
  16. Onisama

    Onisama Peasant

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    Not this weekend. I'll be out of town till Tuesday.

    Going to spend the weekend in Austin :D
    Good food, good drink, good music, and oh yeah, a wedding thing as well (those are always good for laughs).


    best part about it, real queso. mmmm, cheese. :D


    Martin _is_ good.
    I'm about halfway through the second book, but I had to return it because someone else wanted the blasted thing. Best part about Martin (in my opinion) is just when you think you have it all figured out and know where the book is going, he kills the char that your theory revolves around. :D

    Suffice to say, I found him pleasantly unpredictable.
     
  17. Gilgamesh

    Gilgamesh MSC Footman

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    oh, man....

    So all the characters in the beginning are gonna die out???

    ** don't answer that...**
     
  18. Rhys

    Rhys Peasant

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    new thread!

    I keep getting emails about my Paladin Skills topic being replied to, but the replies are about a book by someone who couldn't even hide the fact he is ripping off history. Come on, the Starks and the Lannisters? Anyone heard of the Yorks and the Lancasters? War of the Roses? And that northern wall... ever heard of Hadrian's wall? The Romans built it to keep the northern barbaric hordes out of southern England. Feh! ;)

    Okay maybe I'll check the book out anyway, it is getting rave reviews, but please make a new topic, thanks! :p
     
  19. Gilgamesh

    Gilgamesh MSC Footman

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    Rhys....

    You have to uncheck the preference that sends those e-mails to you when someone replies.... I'm not too sure where, but it is under the profiles....

    Or right below the text box that people type their messages into....
     
  20. Rhys

    Rhys Peasant

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    so anyway, my paladin is 23rd level now

    I hoarded my skill points until level 18, putting a couple in defiance, one in prayer, one in thorns, one in sacrifice... After breaking level 12 and 18 I started putting points in zeal (just 1), concentration (5), vengeance (2), and blessed hammer (3 or 4). I've got to say, the combination of Life steal and Mana steal equipment along with Concentration and Zeal is amazing. When I get hit I pop the baddies a half-dozen times and my health is almost full again. When I run into champions or Bosses I trade in Zeal for Vengeance and beat the piss out of them at a rapid rate. When too many Fetishes start screwing with me, out comes the Blessed Hammers!

    Having lots of fun with this Paladin, Concentration is the single best target for skill points in my opinion, you just can't go wrong loading up on it.

    Thanks for the suggestions. Although I'm not building this guy as a "hammerdin" or "zealot" exclusively (I'm having fun with too many of the skills to specialize that much), all of your help has been invaluable to my understanding of the Paladin.
     

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