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Do mages need to be fixed?

Discussion in 'Character Building' started by ProXie, Feb 17, 2005.

  1. ProXie

    ProXie Peasant

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    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.aspx?fn=wow-mage

    I was doing my fair share of reading and a lot of people are complaining that mage's aren't powerful enough. I do understand that everyone complains that their char is underpowered therefor I didn't take all of it into consideration.

    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=65262&s=new&tmp=1#new
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-mage&t=65031&s=new&tmp=1#new

    What do you guys think? Personally, I think if mages were truely 'gimps' Blizzard would fix them, but when?! I don't see Blizzard responding to many forum topics.
     
  2. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    I have read many of the mage complaints on the forums, and I think they are all a bit overstated. The two main problems I see with mages are:

    1) downtime to regen mana.

    2) they don't do as much damage as rogues, and mages were supposed to be the biggest damage dealers. But they still do a lot of damage.

    Neither of these problems are huge.
     
  3. ProXie

    ProXie Peasant

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    Yeah definitely. I'm only level 8 and I feel the burn. I'm not looking foward to later on. I also hear that leveling a mage between level 35-50 is one of the hardest races to level.

    I don't think the problems are huge, but what mage wouldn't love Blizzard if they fixed us up a bit. Of course, they aren't going to do anything unless its a serious issue.
     
  4. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    I found that with a good staff a caster can still deal a considerable amount of damage with the regular attack. You can also break out a wand.
     
  5. Scorpion

    Scorpion Peasant

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    Even though staffs are one of the stronger weapons in the game, it's not made for a mage. You'd need str to make the staff even useful and mages lack that. So even if a staff says that it's doing 150-250 dmg, in reality for a mage, the staff is only doing around 20-40 dmg because of the lack of str. Wands are just as bad since 70% of the time, the attack would be miss/resisted and when it does hit it's only doing 30-50 dmg. The only reason for a mage to use a staff is the proc on the staff. There are some staff that stuns as a proc and that might be the only usefulness that a mage can get from a staff.
     
  6. Scorpion

    Scorpion Peasant

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    Read this Click here. Apparently we haven't been playing our mages right. Mages are way too powerful if you're not doing PVP and even in PVP this is viable. I'm gonna have to redo my mage and I think I can catch up to Jake in no time.
     
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  7. Scorpion

    Scorpion Peasant

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    Mage killing 10-12 mobs only 1-2 lvls under at a time. That's insane exp and loot. Can kill up to 21 mobs 5-6 lvls under with one shot. No rogue can even do this. I'm gonna start farming some places after I learn how to do this correctly and finding a good spot. Nothing wrong with killing 10-12 lvl 44-46s in 2-3 mins ;).
     
  8. Scorpion

    Scorpion Peasant

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    This link gives a good mage build for leveling. Mage Build. Go to Section IV for the talent set-up and you can reset it later for your own personal style.
     
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  9. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    My current build is 44/7 Arcane Frost. It has proved to be very good for PvE and instances with groups. But I think it will fall short in PvP. I might respec later.
     
  10. Scorpion

    Scorpion Peasant

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    I think 31/20 Arcane/Fire is the best for both PvP and PvE. Just look at all the dmg that could be dealt within a 10 sec period. I read that someone managed to put out over 4800 (Nova -> Flamestrike -> PoM + Pyroblast -> IAE -> CoC -> IAE * 2). Everything is an Instant except for Flamestrike plus they're all AoE spells :eek:.
     
  11. ProXie

    ProXie Peasant

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    Sounds promising. I'll have to remember that when I start to build my character.
     
  12. Scorpion

    Scorpion Peasant

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    Go with what the guide on the forum suggest. You won't be able to get this combo until lvl 36-46 and then you'll really be rolling. I talked with Jakeman concerning this and we both agreed that they're gonna nerf fire/arcane mages since it's possible for this set-up to be doing 4800 dmg in 10 secs to anything that's within a 10 yard radius. Some guy was able to gather up 21 murlocs and kill them all in 5-6 secs bringing up his dps to 4800 dps.

    Btw the ultimate combo would go something like this:

    gather up a huge group then

    FNova -> AP -> Flamestrike -> PoM + Pyroblast -> IAE -> CoC - IAE ( * 2 if possible).

    Here's how it works (you'll need about a little more than 6k mana to do this):

    Fnova so they can't move for 8 secs.
    AP (Increase all dmg by 35% while costing 35% more mana; last 15 sec, 3 min cooldown).
    Flamestrike (Area effect fire spell that does around 220-272 dmg + another 196 over 8 sec at Rank 4 (lvl 40); 3 sec cast).
    PoM (Activating this makes next spell into an instant; 3 min cooldown).
    Pyroblast (Sends a molten boulder at an enemy, Area effect, 637-837 dmg + another 60dmg/8 sec at Rank 6 (lvl 44); 6 sec cast but with PoM it turns into an instant cast).
    IAE (Instant cast Arcane Explosion; Rank 5 (lvl 46) 186 - 202 dmg).
    CoC (Cone of Cold; Rank 3 (lvl 42) 203 - 223 dmg).
    IAE (another 186 - 202 dmg).

    Flamestrike -----3 sec-----AP time used: 3-----Dmg: 220-272 + 196/8 sec
    PoM + Pyroblast 1 sec-------------------4-----------637-837 + 60/8 sec
    IAE-------------1 sec-------------------5-----------186-202
    CoC------------1 sec--------------------6-----------203-223
    IAE-------------1 sec-------------------7-----------186-202

    Total-----------7 sec-------------------7------ 1414-1736 + 200/8sec * 1.35

    At lvl 46===============================1909-2344 dmg in 7 sec

    dps = 273 - 335 dps * number of enemies

    It's best to fight 5-6 enemies at a time so you'll get 1365 - 1675 dps. :yeah:

    Make sure you have 1800 hp cause you will be getting hit. Plus you have to learn how to minimize the hits by running around cause standing in one place will surely kill you. I'm practicing how to do this right now so that I can survive up to 10 mobs at a time.
    Note: this strategy will greatly boost your xp cause you'll be getting about 800-1500 xp per 3 mins which is the same or better than doing a quest. So essentially you'll be doing a quest every 3 mins :bonk:.

    Edit: Forgot that I don't want to plagurize anyone so I'll give credit to the ppl on the WoW Mage Forum for the info.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2005
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  13. Wulf

    Wulf MSC Knight and Donator

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    Now everyone will want to group with mages instead of turning stuff in!
     
  14. Scorpion

    Scorpion Peasant

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    The set-up requires some really l33t gears. I mean practically everything has to have at least 5 Stam and 5-6 Int. Mana bar is used up quickly and you typically have to drink for a full minute after every fight. But then again fights only last 5-15 secs with this build so it's all worth it. Plus you have to have really good mage/kiting skills with this or you'll find yourself dying constantly.

    Btw, these types of mages hardly ever party with anyone cause they do better on their own. Only ones they will group with are healers since they take all the agro and will need healing to stay alive. So priests/pallys/druids find yourself a good AoE mage to group cause you'll be gaining lvl pretty fast too. Priests might be the preferred class for this mage to group with cause of Fortitude and great healings.
     
  15. CW

    CW MSC Knight

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    Lower Leveling

    I don't have a high enough level mage to comment on a lot of the discussion here.

    But I do have to say it's simply funny to consider how powerful AoE sutff must be later on. Because at lower levels (currently level 15) this is simply ludicrous.

    AE doesn't pump out enough damage and Frost Nova's effect time vs. cooldown don't provide enough clearance. If you cannot get clear, you get pummelled enough to disrupt almost anything, especially AE. Furthermore, any AoE will aggro nearby critters. Frost Nova, back up, AE, now deal with an angry critter. Lots of fun.

    I cannot reliably do this sort of roundup and wipeout on things 8 levels below, much less the cutoff for XP. Frost Nova at this point is better for escape. But if you used it to start and things go bad, you're often dead before cooldown for Frost Nova completes.

    It's even a challenge to polymorph an add, kill the target and then kill the add if all are at your level given that you're likely tied up casting when you notice the add and the target is hammering on you while you attempt to polymorph the add.

    I'm not certain mages are "broken" or need to be fixed.

    But the "squishiness" of the class makes soloing much more of a challenge. With my warlock it seemed I was matched with Elites two levels lower. Last night I got owned by an Elite four levels lower. I got him today after a passing warlock handed me a soulstone. In general, my mage dies much, much more often than my hunter, warlock, pally, rogue, etc.

    It's not hard to level at this point. But you have to adjust your solo playstyle to be far more careful. But in groups, they seem to be quite OK.

    Better spells coming at level 16. I have to hope it continues to get better.
     
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  16. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    It does get better - there's a bit of a power vacuum in the mid-teen levels. I've played a mage up to 20, and once you hit 18 or so you pick the pace back up. It's all based on talents too - the way to go for AoE is a frost/arcane build, with instant cast arcane explosion, the snare talents for the cold spells, and the various support spells like Cold Snap, etc
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2005
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  17. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    What Haite said. Mages get uber later on.
     
  18. ProXie

    ProXie Peasant

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    This thread is a bit old. Its before I really knew about WoW. I simply read that mages are gimped on the WoW forums which was obviously a mistake considering EVERYONE complains. Mages are definitely a dominate class in my opinion in the later levels. I can't stand playing one though :(.
     
  19. Scorpion

    Scorpion Peasant

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    Mages cannot do this during the early levels. You essential MUST be at least lvl 40 for any AoE to be any good. Once you hit lvl 40, mages are a killing machine. Stratholm runs cannot be done without a mage. Everyone always want one in their group since they have so many useful abilities (Polymorph, AoE for massive destruction, conjuring water, etc.). I have not seen a group in a high level instance that don't have a mage. Simply put, mages are probably the most powerful char in the game when it comes to killing. Pallys are the best only at survivability but mages are the best killing machine.
     
  20. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    I like the pally / mage combo. :D

    Pally casts BOP on mage (6 second invulnerability). Mage activates Arcane Power (35% increased dmg) and starts AOE bombing a huge group.

    :eyes:
     

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