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Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Vokbain, Mar 27, 2003.

  1. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

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    Considering the history of our country is relatively short compared to that of other countries, I think our system works fine.

    Here's the fault, the spoiled brat "I didn't get my way attitude" that has errupted in the last few years. Suddenly no one takes repsonsibility for their own actions. It's their parents fault, their teacher's fault, their circumstances in life. Whine whine whine.

    People have to realize it's no one fault but your own. You, in the end, are the primary contributer to your fate. You decide how your past will affect your future. No one can make decisions for you, you are not owed anything. You do not deserve to be given everything in life. Everyone must realize that life is not free. You create yourself, for better or worse. You decide how to react to life, and if you make yourself better or let yourself ride along, that's up to you.

    If the election had gone the other way, I would not whine and bitch about how I didn't get my way. I'd say, ok, I may not like Gore, but he's president, lets see how he does things. Who knows, he may have surprised me. But I would not stomp my feet, and whine and cry about how the system is flawed, like the media and most of the Democratic party did.
     
  2. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    i think it's safe to assume the republican party would have done the same thing. :p
     
  3. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

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    Actually, I don't think so. For one, they handled themselves much better than the Democrats did during that time. I watched quite a bit of it, and I have to say the Republicans defended themselves but did not go to the extremes that alot of Democrats did.

    If it had gone the other way, I doubt any of that would have happened. That's my opinion, but I think it's pretty reasonable based on the actions of the parties during the election. In fact I think even Gore started to realize it was just making him look silly.
     
  4. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    the parties always get butt hurt during close elections.
     
  5. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    My concern is that it's a two party system composed of only people with very good connections and a lot of money.
     
  6. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

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    Politics seems to be based mostly on party lines which is wrong. The party system started as a way to get differing views heard.

    Now it's become a mud wrestling match. The philosophy behind the parties is good, but we have become steeped in partisianship and that prevents things from getting done sometimes. When politicians won't vote on an issue soley because it comes from the opposing side, then we have a problem.

    I vote for who I think has the best plan or ideas for the country or state as a whole. With all the rhetoric of the media, it's hard to get the real picture of candidates, but I do the best I can. Alot of people vote strictly based on party, I do not agree with that. I admit I vote primarily Republican, because I agree with most of what they say or stand for. But I do not look at parties when I vote, but the candidate. And I admit I tend to disagree with the Democratic party more, but if a candidate has a solid idea and plan that I beleive will benefit my state/country, I'll vote for them.
     
  7. Vokbain

    Vokbain Peasant and Donator

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    Actually, after all was said and done, Gore got more votes.

    Besides, even if he didn't get the most votes, the Republicans rigged Florida so the Democrats wouldn't get nearly as many votes. During that last election, they added people who had only commited small crimes, or even just parking tickets and stuff to their "not allowed to vote" list. It just so happens that the majority of people on that list are African American, and they would have voted Gore.

    If the Republicans hadn't pulled so much crap before hand, Gore would have won with an overwhelming majority.
     
  8. Wulf

    Wulf MSC Knight and Donator

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    Lol I hope you don't believe everything you're told or I have some cheese from the moon you might want to buy.
     
  9. Vokbain

    Vokbain Peasant and Donator

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    I only believe what I read in national American newspapers, or see on network TV.
     
  10. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

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    Hmm, and the Democrats wanted to disallow 25,000 absentee ballots from military personnel overseas for fear they'd vote Republican.

    I never said Gore didn't win the popular vote.

    But it's the electoral college that counts and Bush is not the first president to win the electoral and not the popular, which I posted previously.

    As to the Republicans rigging Florida, I have never heard that. But it doesn't surpirse me that story would circulate, after all, Bush's little brother is the Governor, so how could it be fair? (note:sarcasm). I live 3 hours from Florida, I followed the election very closely, from direct sources, newspaper, radio and tv. I think I am knowledgable about what happened in Florida. To question Bush's presidency now is redundant, ridiculous and ludicruos. The Democrats have their chance coming up in 2004, so we'll see what happens then. So far on their ticket, Lieberman is the one I would support if I did not support Bush (and I still support him, unless something changes in the next year).
     
  11. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    The presidency is a state function. Who cares about the election.
     
  12. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

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    There should have been a re-election.

    I´m with Vokbain on this one.

    I´m not allowed to vote yet and our system differs from yours but I would vote for the party, not the candidate.
     
  13. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    There was a recount for Florida, an election would have been unnecessary.

    Why would you vote for the party? The party does not represent you, the member represents you through the party.
     
  14. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

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    I´m not sure I understand. I vote for the party that has a political agenda that matches mine, who leads it doesn´t matter that much.
    There are two major left-wing parties in sweden, the big one forms the government with support from the other, unless the asshats win (they usually don´t).
    The small party votes with the government thier issues and are in return given some influence.
     
  15. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    Different members in the same party can have broad agendas. Just because they might all be classified as left wing conservative doesn't mean that they all want the same thing. They just run with the party that most suits them. So when I choose an MP to vote for, I look at what they as an individual are trying to do, often it will be the same as the party, but they might have more specific goals that are more relevant to me.

    For example the party might want to increase healthcare funding. But the member might want to increase healthcare funding for the specific hospital in my region while the party might end up only increasing it for a few select hospitals.

    And sometimes you have two members in the same party running for the same area. You can't vote for both, so you pick the one that best represents you.

    Also there are independants. They don't have a party, so you might agree more with them than any of the other MPs represented by parties.
     
  16. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

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    Our system differs from yours. You have a two party system and there must be room for some differnet ideas inside the parties because they are so big. We have seven parties and a number of small ones.
    Disagreements inside the party are usually worked out before.

    Example. The government is a minority government (the party or parties has below 50% of the votes). This is usually the Social-democrats (left-wing). They usually get around 30-40% of the votes. They could not rule efffiecienlt without support from other parties bacause most of thier ideas would get shot down.
    They are usually supported by "the left-party" which usually get´s around 15% and some sort of evironmental-thingy that gets just above 4-5%.
    The supporting parties vote the same way as the government.

    The difference is in the system.
     
  17. Wulf

    Wulf MSC Knight and Donator

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    Republican, Democrat, Independant, Green, uhh... there are others but we have more than just two parties here as well.
     
  18. MisterHalleck

    MisterHalleck Peasant

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    since when was the Green party (or Independent, for that matter) ever a serious political party?
     
  19. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

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    Independent doesn't get as much respect, but we have notable politcians who are members.

    Like Jesse Ventura who was Michigan's gov.

    Part of the problem is so many people only pay attention to Dem or Republican and feel if they even try to vote for someone else it won't really matter since those two parties are so dominant.
     
  20. MisterHalleck

    MisterHalleck Peasant

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    yeah, but unfortunately those people are right. if they vote green they've thrown their vote away.
     

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