Portal   Forum   Members   Market   Gallery   Events

War Protestors Intelligence

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Jedsia, Feb 22, 2003.

  1. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    By the way, the last few posts have just been things I thought were interesting reading. Not necessarily continuing the argument.

    I'm pretty much done fighting my case, I think I've presented enough evidence to back up my feelings on Iraq. I don't want a war, but I believe that it may be the only answer at this point. All diplomacy efforts so far have not worked. And Saddam is not going to go away, now is the time to act, it's been 12 years.

    Anyway, I may continue to post articles I find in my readings of keeping up with current events, but not to continue arguments. Purely for educational sake. This is a very important time in our history, I think it's important to be as informed as possible.
     
  2. MisterHalleck

    MisterHalleck Peasant

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2000
    Messages:
    2,746
    Likes Received:
    15
    Market Rating:
    0
    nice humor thingy back there... you're a mother, send yourself
     
  3. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2000
    Messages:
    2,586
    Likes Received:
    47
    Market Rating:
    0
  4. Kaeric

    Kaeric Peasant

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2001
    Messages:
    1,850
    Likes Received:
    4
    Market Rating:
    0
    we knew...we knew how much power the nuclear bombs contained. We had done many testings before we dropped them on Japan, Bikini islands for example.
     
  5. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    Letter to Congressional Leaders on the Situation in the Persian Gulf
    May 17, 1991
    Dear Mr. Speaker: (Dear Mr. President:)

    On March 19, 1991, I reported to you, consistent with the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102 - 1), on the successful conduct of military operations aimed at the liberation of Kuwait. Since that time, the United Nations Security Council has adopted Resolution 687, which set forth the preconditions for a formal cease-fire. Iraq has accepted those terms, and the cease-fire and withdrawal of coalition forces from southern Iraq have been concluded. The Iraqi repression of the Kurdish people has, however, necessitated a limited introduction of U.S. forces into northern Iraq for emergency relief purposes. I am reporting these matters to you as part of our continuing effort to keep the Congress fully informed on these developments.

    Resolution 687 required, as a precondition for a formal cease-fire, that Iraq officially notify the United Nations of its acceptance of the provisions of the resolution. These provisions included: (1) respect for the international boundary as agreed between Iraq and Kuwait in 1963, which the Security Council guaranteed; (2) the creation of a demilitarized zone along the Iraq-Kuwait border and the deployment of a U.N. observer unit into that zone; (3) the destruction, removal, or rendering harmless of all chemical and biological weapons, ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 kilometers, and nuclear-weapons-usable material, together with facilities related to them, and international supervision and inspection to verify compliance; (4) the creation of a fund, drawn from future Iraqi oil revenues, to pay compensation for losses caused by the Iraqi invasion and occupation of Kuwait; (5) the continuation of the embargo of all exports of arms to Iraq; (6) the phased relaxation of certain other aspects of the U.N. sanctions against Iraq as Iraq complies with its obligations under the resolution; and (7) the renunciation by Iraq of support for international terrorism.

    Iraq officially accepted those terms on April 6, and a formal cease-fire has gone into effect. Accordingly, United States Armed Forces deployed in southern Iraq began withdrawing as U.N. peacekeeping personnel deployed into the zone, and this withdrawal was completed on May 9. The United States has been assisting the U.N. Secretary General in his efforts to implement the other provisions of Resolution 687, particularly with respect to boundary demarcation, compensation, and weapons of mass destruction.

    During this same period, however, Iraqi forces engaged in a campaign of brutal repression of internal opposition, with the result that many hundreds of thousands of civilians fled their homes in search of safety in the regions along the Turkish and Iranian borders. In response to this situation, on April 5 the Security Council adopted Resolution 688, which insisted that Iraq cease its repression and allow immediate access by international humanitarian organizations, and appealed to all Member States to assist in these humanitarian relief efforts.

    I immediately ordered United States Armed Forces to begin air-dropping large amounts of food and other essential items to these refugees. However, it soon became clear that even this massive effort would not be enough to deal with the desperate plight of the hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children stranded and suffering in these mountainous areas. Accordingly, on April 16 I directed United States Armed Forces to begin to establish immediately several temporary encampments in northern Iraq where geographical conditions would be more suitable for relief efforts. United States, British, and French forces are providing security for these encampments.

    This effort is not intended as a permanent solution to the plight of the Iraqi Kurds. It is a humanitarian measure designed to save lives, consistent with Resolution 688. It is also not an attempt to intervene militarily into the internal affairs of Iraq or to impair its territorial integrity. We intend to turn over the administration and security for these temporary sites as soon as possible to the United Nations (a process that has already begun), and to complete our total withdrawal from Iraq. Our long-term objective remains the same: for Iraqi Kurds, and indeed for all Iraqi refugees and displaced persons, to return home and to live in peace, free from repression.

    I am grateful for the support that the Congress has given, and I look forward to continued cooperation in meeting these urgent humanitarian goals.

    Sincerely,

    George Bush
     
  6. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2000
    Messages:
    25,759
    Likes Received:
    27
    Market Rating:
    16
    ok, now we are giving Saddam and his sons 48 hours to leave the country, or else we go to war.

    let's go back to the beginning. We wanted them to disarm. Now our only request is for their leader to be removed... no mention of disarming. I'm confused now.
     
  7. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2001
    Messages:
    9,325
    Likes Received:
    34
    Market Rating:
    0
    It kind of goes without saying that if Saddam leaves they'll be a much more peaceful country.
     
  8. MisterHalleck

    MisterHalleck Peasant

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2000
    Messages:
    2,746
    Likes Received:
    15
    Market Rating:
    0
    Saddam AND his family, who happen to be worse than he is. I heard one of his sons likes to feed people to pit bulls.
     
  9. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    http://www.meforum.org/article/273

    Just one instance from this article:

    Udayy's relations with women give some sense of his character. Latif Yahia, an Iraqi man who served as `Udayy's double from 1987 to the end of the Kuwait war, recalls that "the surest path to [`Udayy's] ear . . . was to bring him a woman. . . . Bodyguards got used to seeing women emerge battered from his bedroom." `Udayy's fiance, the daughter of Barzan Ibrahim, reportedly fled Baghdad to escape `Udayy's abuse.12 According to Husayn Kamil, "[`Udayy] has killed six women. However, no one has punished him for his deeds."13 Perhaps the most gruesome story is one related by Yahia, who says he was among those watching when `Udayy retaliated against a Baghdad University student who had complained to friends about `Udayy's abusing her; he had her stripped naked, covered with honey, and then killed by three starving Dobermans.14 "If it is possible to have someone who is worse than his father, he is it," says a former ranking member of the ruling elite.15

    Pretty harrowing tales of Saddam's lovely family. Notice the date of article, 1995, 8 years ago.
     
  10. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2000
    Messages:
    25,759
    Likes Received:
    27
    Market Rating:
    16
    don't believe anything that you haven't seen first hand during war time. propoganda until proven otherwise.
     
  11. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    War hasn't even started yet. Besides, there's tons of articles listing the things the family has done. The one I found was from 8 years ago, about the girl being killed by dobermans, among other things done.
     
  12. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2000
    Messages:
    25,759
    Likes Received:
    27
    Market Rating:
    16
    same for Bush, coming from the other side.
     
  13. Elbereth

    Elbereth MSC Commander and Donator

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2000
    Messages:
    3,356
    Likes Received:
    14
    Market Rating:
    0
    I don't think partying too much in college compares to rape, torture, and murder.

    :rolleyes:
     
  14. MisterHalleck

    MisterHalleck Peasant

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2000
    Messages:
    2,746
    Likes Received:
    15
    Market Rating:
    0
    yeah, keep some perspective here.
     
  15. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2002
    Messages:
    2,332
    Likes Received:
    2
    Market Rating:
    0
    you don´t understand jake´s point
    the point is "we say things about saddam, and they say things about bush, you acnnot belive anything it´s propaganda"
     
  16. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    If you want to beleive its progaganda thats fine.

    But the fact is, many countries have this info, before Bush even became president (1995, duh ;) ).

    I found similar info posted by an Australian website, Isrealli website, Human Rights website, Amnesity International.

    It's kinda hard to be propaganda targeted at Saddam by Bush when it came out before he was president.

    If we want to argue the first Bush, fine. But even then, this info has come from multiple sources, from multiple countries. Most of the information came from Iraqi informants. Some from Saddam's family who defected. Other from intelligence gathered by different countries.

    Propaganda is often information that is not likely to be backed up by outside sources. It is usually bent truth, or based lightly on truth and put out in a way as to be un-scrutinized. Propaganda is targeted to those who do not think for themselves. I check where my info comes from. Most of it is from respectable sources that can back up their sources.
     
  17. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2000
    Messages:
    25,759
    Likes Received:
    27
    Market Rating:
    16
    we have rape, torture and murder here too. Taken out of context, it can look just as bad for the US.

    that's not perspective... it's comparing two things using subjective logic, which is quite the opposite. If you want perspective, go visit Iraq, immerse yourself in their culture, and try to understand their point of view without applying your past knowledge and experience (a hard thing to do).
     
  18. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    We don't encourage rape and murder. We punish it.

    The system doesn't always work, but there are tons of convicted murderers and rapists sitting in jail right now.

    What does Udayy get? A pat on the head.
     
  19. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2000
    Messages:
    25,759
    Likes Received:
    27
    Market Rating:
    16
    that wasn't my point.

    fact. cannot be argued.


    facts can be distorted to convey a desired propoganda.
     
  20. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    We said basically the same thing, I just misread your reply. ;)
     

Hitometer: 53,939,428 since 1995