Portal   Forum   Members   Market   Gallery   Events

War Protestors Intelligence

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Jedsia, Feb 22, 2003.

  1. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
  2. Elbereth

    Elbereth MSC Commander and Donator

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2000
    Messages:
    3,356
    Likes Received:
    14
    Market Rating:
    0
    That is great!
     
  3. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
  4. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    I wish I would have found this website a while ago, this really says it best about war with Iraq.....


    Sometimes, there is no choice but to meet danger with force. To resort to war is not the sign of ultimate failure, as some argue, it's just the sign of diplomacy's failure. But we shouldn't let failed diplomacy fester while stealthy enemies strengthen and scheme. Now that we've seen how easily terrorists can bring death to our door, we must prevent them from acquiring weapons from thugs like Saddam Hussein. The best way is to make sure there aren't any thugs like Saddam Hussein.

    To the peace-at-all-costs crowd, I say: peace was given a chance, and peace failed. So, rest up. There will be plenty of protests for you to attend in the near future. That's because we're fortunate enough to have a president who recognizes the lurking dangers that you choose to ignore. As you savor the freedoms, comforts, and luxuries of the American existence, remember the Iraqi people, who have none of these things thanks to Saddam Hussein. And think of our kids in the Gulf, the ones you probably view as offspring of rednecks and other unsophisticates. They've pledged their lives to secure your right to scream yourself hoarse about the evil United States. They're the ones who are about to liberate the Iraqi people. And when they do, they'll be making a far greater contribution to humanity than has ever been made by antiquated actresses bellowing stale sixties slogans into bullhorns at peace protests.






    Copyright 2003, Evan Coyne Maloney
     
  5. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2000
    Messages:
    25,759
    Likes Received:
    27
    Market Rating:
    16
    lol. There is no such thing as an educated person in these matters, given the current media we have to get our information from (CNN, Fox, please :rolleyes: )
     
  6. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2001
    Messages:
    9,325
    Likes Received:
    34
    Market Rating:
    0
    Multiple sources ensures objectivity and verification of truth.

    I agree with him though. Even though the U.S. Catholic Bishops and Desmond Tutu are both backing peace, I cannot see the merit of such a prospect. I understand that they can hold a position of idealism, but it's not practical. The Iraqi regime needs to be removed; every single solitary person, aside from Saddam and his power mongering generals, would benefit from it.

    Civilian deaths, while tragic, are far overblown. We learned from our mistakes in Afghanistan, and I think it would be kept to a minimum (most of the fighting takes place in the desert anyway, unless our hand is forced by the Iraqi army). Also, lots of people are predicting mass-casaulties on our side, which is quite literally impossible, without grave incompetence. Our technology has increased steadily since the Gulf War; the Iraqi army has decreased to a third in size, and has acquired no new weaponry aside from that which it has developed itself.
     
  7. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2002
    Messages:
    2,332
    Likes Received:
    2
    Market Rating:
    0
    Bush uses the rethoric of a religios fanatic, his speeches are built the same way as those of Usama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein.
    He paints a world in black and white, us vs. them. Everybody who´s not with us are against us.

    I feel glad when some nations have the guts to stand up and say, we want no war (France and Germany, "the old europe"), yet I feel ashamed for being from sweden when our spineless prime minister don´t tell us what he thinks (we will follow the UN, he says).
    The sanctions by the UN has caused the deaths of about half a million children. Do they supply weapons to terrorists?

    The war that is about the be started is a violations of the human rights. You cannot bomb forth democracy, it has never worked. All we will get is a US friendly government, a secure source for oil.

    To jedsia: Peace was not given a chance. The Gulf war never ended. There has been daily bombings of Iraq for 10 years.

    At last, the US supplied Saddam with weapons to kill Iranians, then they supplied the Iranians with weapons to kill Iraqis. Kuwait was invaded with weapons from the US. You created this dictator to suit your needs and as long as he was nice to you you didn´t care. But when he no longer did what you wanted him to do (in 1990) he´s the enemy and must be overthrown.

    These are matters that angers me greatly.
     
  8. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    I don't think we should be asking the UN's permission anyway, the UN is anti-american and will never make a move.

    There is a HUGE difference between Bush and Saddam/Osama, they kill civilians and use terror as weapons. We have a RIGHT to defend ourselves, from past and future attacks.

    If we let this go too much further, we're gonna end up with another attack on our hands and more American deaths.

    Oh, and I'd be a little hesitant to put much faith in Cherac, he is a friend of Saddam's and was intergral in Iraq aquiring nuclear weapons in the first place. Personally, I don't care what the man says.

    edit: also, Saddam AGREED to disarm as part of his surrender in 91. THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED, and any bombings we have done are to military targets, in retaliation for breaches of his terms.

    Also, if I remember correctly, Russia was our enemy, and is now our ally. Japan was an enemy and is now a ally. Point is, alliances change. Saddam may have been a ally, but I don't think he was ever a friend. The Middle East has always had turmoil and alliances change.
     
  9. harleyb

    harleyb Peasant

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2002
    Messages:
    866
    Likes Received:
    9
    Market Rating:
    0
    wait...
     
  10. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    I do not understand why people are defending these men. It's like defending Hitler.

    Maybe people just do not want to see, but it's gonna come crashing down on us if people don't open their eyes. I don't want my children blown up. We have given Saddam a "last chance to disarm" since 1998. FIVE YEARS, he's not gonna do it. He's laughing his ass off at us while we bend at the knee for the UN.
     
  11. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
  12. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2000
    Messages:
    25,759
    Likes Received:
    27
    Market Rating:
    16
    owned
     
  13. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    Can you tell this is a sensitive subject for me :D

    We do not willfully target civilians. We do not crash airplanes into buildings to kill thousands of people. We do not threaten to kill the families of people if they do not adhere to our rules. We do not torture and maim our citizens. We do not blow up nightclubs and embassies.

    In war, sometimes the wrong people are killed, but not intentionally. That's the big difference between us and Osama/Saddam.
     
  14. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2000
    Messages:
    25,759
    Likes Received:
    27
    Market Rating:
    16
    i believe that violence cannot be defeated with violence... that only encourages more of the same.
     
  15. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2000
    Messages:
    13,721
    Likes Received:
    18
    Market Rating:
    0

    I don't know why Germany is against us, you can draw direct parallels between Hussein and Hitler. Anyways, it's nice to see how greatful Europe is for America's intervention in both of the wars.


    Whenever someone says that, it REALLY pisses me off. A child's life is just as valuable as that of an adult. Do you know how many Iraqi civilians die every year anyways without America's intervention. About the same. Everyone always cries that America will kill innocent civilians, even though the current dictator is killing just as many every year anyways.


    Better than a country constantly spawning terrorists and threatening the world. Iraq has defied the UN for twelve years, why should we keep giving them more time to construct more weapons?
     
  16. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    :bowdown: (this seems a favorite today)

    Thank you. War is always a last resort...but it's the only thing Saddam will listen to. He'll never disarm or step down (if he does, I'll probably have a heart attack on the spot.)

    edit: it appears my first link for Chirac and Saddam was bad, here's a new one from a different source

    http://www.usainreview.com/2_11_Chirac_Connection.htm

    I'm mostly providing these links as backing to my position on potential war. I do not advocate war, but it seems to be the only solution at this point.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2003
  17. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2000
    Messages:
    25,759
    Likes Received:
    27
    Market Rating:
    16
    i also believe war is never required to resolve a problem.
     
  18. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2002
    Messages:
    2,332
    Likes Received:
    2
    Market Rating:
    0
    My guess is that this debate will lead nowhere but I must defend my point of view.

    First of all, I do not defend Saddam Hussein or Usama bin Laden.
    I said the Bush uses the same way to give speeches. That was critisism to Bush, he is in some ways not better then those he and you equal hitler.
    Hitler had death camps, comparing Saddams terror of the Iragi people to what was done during WW2 is not a good comparision to make. Hitler was a lot worse.
    I understand the parallels that can be drawn but to equal them is going to far.

    If america choose to start a war without the agreement of the UN, then I see no hope for this world. Iraq thinks the UN is pro-america and anti-iraq, you think the opposite. Iraq must comply or there will be war, you don´t need to because you are the only superpower. See my point? You might not like the UN, but the UN IS the world. You don´t want UN sactions against yourelves, would you? You can try to affect the UN, sure, but to sidestep the descicion of it...
    Your opinion frightens me Jedsia. This is a sensitive subjet for me to.
    Saddam Hussein did not crash planes into WTC! You have absolutely no evidence he as anything at all to do with the WTC attack.

    To cow, I thank you greatly for saving my ass during WW2 even though you only did it for selfish reasons. If you weren´t attacked by Japan would you have joined the war? I think not.
    Your help might not even have been neccesary.
    You must not forget the Soviet Union, they would´ve got hitler
    eventually. In the begining their military hardware was way behind. But at the end of the war they had a tank production complex in the Urals that outproduced the entire Nazi tank production.

    I never heard Germany helped Iraq, but I´ve heard about France and the US. France sold them a nuclear reactor I think.

    I agree with Jake´s comment.
     
  19. mud

    mud Peasant

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2000
    Messages:
    1,675
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    Jedsia: You group both Saddam and Osama in the same category when you list them as crashing planes into buildings, got any evidence that Saddam was involved in any of that? Blindly following anyone is stupid, believe it or not, but Osama wants to overthrow corrupt Muslim governments as well, Iraq is on his list.
     
  20. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2000
    Messages:
    1,897
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    Agreedm this debate will probably go no where.

    But just as one last thought, Saddam didn't fly the planes into the WTC, but he certainly supports terrorism. He's paid the families of suicide bombers money and Osama's brothers have been spotted in Baghdad. There may not be any released evidence of the connection between them, but it is not too hard to connect the dots.

    Publicaly Osama has denounced Iraq, but strategically they have too much to gain by working together. I did not mean to make it sound like they were directly involved with WTC together. I group them together because they pose the same threat and could very easily form a deadly alliance (if they have not already)
     

Hitometer: 53,936,245 since 1995