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Too bad...

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Haite, Jun 2, 2002.

  1. SpocKirk

    SpocKirk Forum Moderator and Donator

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    where?
    But you would have to check every time. I don't think I understand what you are trying to say
     
  2. dapork

    dapork Peasant

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    if god is above science, why can't santa be? maybe he's one of god's little helpers. hey this is funny, "believing in santa"=santanism

    read the thread.
     
  3. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    What? That you're hairy? That's not evidence.
     
  4. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    No... it's not obvious... you can't contradict something without limit.

    I can deny your example because all it proves is -5 can cancel out +5. It's still thinking in finites... You're trying to place a limit on infinity. You want absolutes? Calculate 1/3 to the last decimal place, there's your absolute that can't exist...

    --Haite
     
  5. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    All right... SpocKirk I dunno why you jumped on the subject, since I kind of disproved it a long time ago by pointing out Coca-Cola has a patent on it.

    Saying that's akin to Jesus is pretty bogus, since there are 6 (so far discovered) different accounts of his life story. The 4 Gospels, the 5th Gospel of Thomas (which was denied from the Canon of the Church because it wasn't accurate in all aspects of faith and morals), and the Dead Sea Scrolls.

    --Haite
     
  6. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    i just did. :confused: my example is obviously correct, logically correct. you still have not addressed my specific example. for an absolute to be absolute then can be no exceptions (by definition). my example is an exception and so absolute power is not possible in the absolute sense (there is no other sense). in case you don't see it yet... i'm not saying that god, if he exists, has no power. i'm saying that he can't have absolute power. these are very different.

    no it doesn't. math has nothing to do with my example.

    no i'm not. infinity has nothing to do with it. absolute has nothing to do with infinity.

    .3 with an infinite ammount of trailing 3's. simple. it can and does exist. but infinite values in math has nothing to do with my example.
     
  7. dapork

    dapork Peasant

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    stop acting stupid, it's just an annoying and childesh way of arguing. there were all the bodily parts i mentioned, and the known evidence of skeletons etc. i think it was sporkirk who pointed it out that nothing in that matter is certain, and that it's still fuzzy. but even with what we have, we have reason to believe. there is NO solid proof or even evidence of god, there is only faith. lemme speak hypothetically: faith in everyday situations like "i remembered to drop of the library book mom", "oh that's good son, i'm glad you remembered"... the mom had faith (believed) her son, cause we all know it was possible for him to drop off the book, and the matter is of little importance. but having faith in something so supernatural, far out and vague, is down right preposterous. there were likely to be witnesses of the "book drop off", but for god, we have nothing, no reason to believe whatsoever, period.


    can't you cancel out -infinity with +infinity? :confused:


    my analogy still rests :rolleyes:
    jake's statement still seems entirely true to me, and i think haite is getting carried away, so here it is again.
     
  8. SpocKirk

    SpocKirk Forum Moderator and Donator

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    I mean I need concrete facts, not just "I don't use my fingernails, ergo I must have evolved"

    Evolution is still a theory, not a fact.

    //edit: I am not an eating utensil :p
     
  9. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    Just like you can never stop repeating 3's to display 1/3 as a decimal, so God can never surpass himself. It's just not possible.

    To create an object that he couldn't lift is impossible to imagine in our universe, because all things in our universe are finite. Your definition of non-absolute power is based on relativity to objects in our universe. If God were to create something in 3 dimensions, it would be of finite mass, so his infinity would always surpass it.

    In "God's realm" (aka Heaven, Nirvana, Teh Allah Zone, or whatever), physics don't apply.

    In short, your "infinity object" is undefinable.

    --Haite
     
  10. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    Actually, even human science will tell you there is such a thing as lesser or greater infinities.

    --Haite
     
  11. dapork

    dapork Peasant

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    i got your proof. there's a man in england who discovered a really old skull near his home. it thousands of years old. the skull was shaped differently, and it literally had fangs (severale). the DNA in the skull was tested, and they found that it was a distant relative of his on his mother's side. it's no longer a theory, it's a fact.


    :confused: numbers are infinite, and they're definitely in our universe aren't they? so is space. i still don't get you, every way you look at it, if god is all powerful he can create anything right? so he can create something that he can't lift. but i guess your saying that after he creates it, he can still lift it. i guess you guys will always believe that god defies rational explanation. until you guys think "rationally", there's no convincing you.
     
  12. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    Um...right. Link plz!
     
  13. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    yeah, i want a link about infinite physicals in the nirvana realm too. :nya:
     
  14. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    Well of course I'm also interested in proof, but...

    I never said evolution was fiction in the first place, since it doesn't actually conflict with deistic creationism. It does conflict with spontaneous creationism, but that's not what Catholicism believes in anyway.

    Did it look anything like this? [​IMG]

    That's a picture of a skull from our own species, several thousand years ago (between 400,000 and 300,000 to be exact).

    By the way, there were no hominid species with fangs, so you may need to recheck your source...

    Have you listened to a thing I've said?

    *sigh* Well, first of all let me clear up some misconceptions. Space is finite, and infinite numbers are in the mind, the only numbers in the universe are finite.

    Now, let me summarize yet again... Our universe has laws that govern it, laws such as mass, density, gravity, and volume. Because our universe is finite, only finite objects can exist within it. To say that God could create an object he couldn't lift is impossible because before such an object can even be defined it must have laws to describe it. God could not create this "infinity object" in our universe because it's impossible (without modifying the constants of our universe). He could create it in His realm, but it wouldn't matter because its properties are meaningless there. Also, because there is such a thing as greater infinities, if God were to create a universe that could contain our infinity object, and then manifest himself in it, he could always "lift" it because he could modify the properties of that universe.

    The worst God can do is exactly match himself, he can never surpass himself.

    --Haite
     
  15. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    ...if god exists
     
  16. dapork

    dapork Peasant

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    i don't have a link, it's in my school biology book. but it does look like those skulls, and not fangs, i meant long pointy teeth. well even tho those are of our species, it's obvious we've evolved since their time. so that proves i†, evolution is a certainty. but i have something to say. i believe that our planet formed from gasses in space, then there was water, then bacteria and micro-organisms. then those living things evolved into fish, froglike animals, lemurlike animals, apes, to humans. i consider that whole thing evolution, and i think all atheists do too. when you say you believe in evolution cow, do u believe god created the planet, then apes, and left us to evolve from there? specify what you think we evolved from. u can't believe in the development of the planet like i do tho.
     
  17. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    For Haite's whole argument about inifinity & God, God must exist. That's a different argument altogether.
     
  18. dapork

    dapork Peasant

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    he proved the possibility of god. but what confuses me is why do people have reason to believe there is a god in the first place? cow if you were born on a desert island with no people, and you grew up with no contact whatsoever. would you know if there was a god? the only reason people who are religious believe in god is because they grew up in a family that told them there is a god, and it sorta brainwashed em. if a kid grew up in a family that believed in santa, and the kid never had any contact with other people, he would believe in santa the way you believe in god. his beliefs would be as solid, and he'd have an illogical explanation for ever bit of proof givin to him that santa didn't exist.
     
  19. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    that is the argument... otherwise we are getting way ahead of ourselves. once god's existence is established as fact then we can talk about god's realm. every religious person i talk to ends up saying they can't prove god's existence in the conventional sense, they say they just believe it, they have faith. it helps to lay down the foundation before building the house.
     
  20. aleldtritch

    aleldtritch Peasant

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    here's why i'm not religious:

    there are two types of afterlife beliefs that a religion entails. either they say there is a heaven and/or hell, or there isn't. most religions differ on the criteria of getting into the heaven or hell. now, they all say they're right and the others are wrong, this is where i have a problem. i cannot accept, for example, that a child born in some third world nation who lives for a few years and then dies of malnutrition, who was never exposed to Christianity goes straight to hell, because he didn't accept Christ as his savior. examples like that are why i will never join a religion that has a hell and says that all other religions are wrong and are going to hell. now for those that have no hell, what's the point in worshiping the God? for answers? why would any divine secrets exist if he didn't care if you worshipped him?
     

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