Portal   Forum   Members   Market   Gallery   Events

Starcraft "Training Course"?

Discussion in 'Starcraft' started by Strader, Jan 9, 2003.

  1. Strader

    Strader Peasant

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    I'm not in practice anymore and I can easily get a few in less than 10 minutes. Just imagine what a pro or a Korean player can do. You are exaggerating by far.

    Cow if you had read my previous posts you would notice that I exempt Zerg from this.
     
  2. Beeble

    Beeble Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    Messages:
    2,699
    Likes Received:
    2
    Market Rating:
    0
    ha, that made me laugh. Not in an insulting way though.
     
  3. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2001
    Messages:
    9,325
    Likes Received:
    34
    Market Rating:
    0
    No offence but I'm kind of sick of Korean this and that; they're not all gods at the game :confused:.

    You can't deny recon, there's just no humanly way, and I can't imagine BC's in under 10, even 15 minutes. You just can't climb the tech tree that fast. The best lurker builds I've read run about 5-6 minutes at best with worker microing, and that's an early to mid-game unit. Any focus on a late-game unit like that from the start is a recipe for disaster, and constant recon and pressure would just outright prevent the unit's acquisition.

    I don't think anti-BC units are that uncommon either.

    If you, or one of your friends wants to prove me wrong, then I'm humble enough to try it. I would expect though that during the game the strategy would be scrapped for something else. I would have an advantage at this point with an arranged game, but I ask that you please try it some time in a clan team or 1 on 1 game with me some time. I want to see if it really is effective, because I remain ever the skeptic, due to the resources and time of deployment, and the relative inflexibility of the unit.

    I have only played one game in which the enemy went Battlecruisers. Yes I was Zerg, and yes I did win. The game lasted for over an hour and I was never attacked by more than 8 or so at any given time. Fair enough if you think they were inept at this particular strategy and that I had it particularly easy as a Zerg player, but as I said before, surprise me with it some time in a random clan game so I can guage it in combat.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2003
  4. Strader

    Strader Peasant

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    I don't play SC anymore and haven't for some time but rest assured my Korean friends could easily beat any of you without breaking a sweat. Koreans are not nessesary better at the game by nature, it's just that they play a LOT more. I can barely see their pointers sometimes, they're that fast. They can and have played vs 6 players of our caliber on continually won.

    You'll also notice that I didn't say I could produce 24 BCs in 10 min, just that I could have some by then. In regard to the impossibility of stopping all scouting, you haven't played any real players then. It's not impossible to stop it but with the speed that these people play at you could never get much past them. Certainly not by the time you could notice them going cruisers.

    A game to prove the point is also pointless because you would know that the person was building cruisers. If you know this you will obviously build counters to them. In regular games people generally do not build lots of counter units vs battle cruisers. The units just aren't as needed vs other unit types, barring Carriers.

    I've mentioned here before that my friends play together during Christmas holidays and during the summer vacation. You're welcome to play them then but the problem is that one of them is becoming a doctor at the University of Ottawa and the other is currently boarding on a farmhouse converted to a children's camp and they only get about 28.8k there. They are using the internet sparingly because it is not theirs and having been raised as many young Koreans are they are sometimes excessively polite about some things. They don't want to inconvenience people. They don't even take gifts without giving something in return.

    Some Korean players even go so far as to use headsets that listen for commands given in Korean. With this setup you can tell all your barracks to produce marines in one second and still do the usual stuff with the interface. Rest assured that they don't need this because they are frighteningly fast and accurate with a mouse. You'd think that they were fighting for their life or something.

    I don't mean to insult you but you have no idea about the level of some players out there. I myself am nowhere near their level. I only play for fun and I'm sure that you guys are probably better at this time since I don't play anymore. I think out of the last 100 games I've only beaten one of them twice and I used to play constantly with respectable skill. I mention pro players like this because they are who I am talking about. In the hands of a good player you can do amazing things and BCs while certainly far from indestructable can do some good damage if a player uses them right. Just accept it, obviously it's better to do combos but BCs have the element of surprise usually in that most people don't use them like they could. That element of surprise which can be retained if you hide your units well enough, is what makes this a valid strategy when combined with the fact that BC counters are not typically on people's build lists if they are Toss or Terran. If they do have some and do not know about the BCs then they will still not have enough. Combos are better but BCs can be a devastating weapon on occasion.

    No, all Koreans are not gods at the game, but since they generally play far more than most other people do they tend to get more practice.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2003
  5. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2000
    Messages:
    13,721
    Likes Received:
    18
    Market Rating:
    0
    No one cares about your supposed elite korean friends.

    Battlecruisers are only effective by themselves in large groups. They have a huge cooldown and they deal very little damage to small units. Two groups of hydras could wipe out at least six.

    Why don't you build an idol to your korean Gods.

    People recon. I think they're going to know you're building cruisers when they see that you have four starports and a science facility + physics lab (not practical on any map except for a BGH map).

    Why do you keep identifying them as koreans? It's not like they have an inherrant gene in the korean population that makes them kickass at starcraft.

    Right. Those few seconds are only valuable at the start of the game and allow you to get in a zergling rush. That is not a fair, or skillful game.

    You sure seem to know what you're talking about when you don't even play the game :rolleyes:

     
  6. SuperStar

    SuperStar Peasant

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Messages:
    794
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    I love Koreans cause there sooo delicious!! Got go Korean!!


    Cow lighten up. Sheez. Cow how many Koreans have you played?
    I have found them to be insanely good myself...
     
  7. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2000
    Messages:
    13,721
    Likes Received:
    18
    Market Rating:
    0
    Uh..yeah, because that's all they do. But it doesn't matter, because none of us are korean.
     
  8. Beeble

    Beeble Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2000
    Messages:
    2,699
    Likes Received:
    2
    Market Rating:
    0
    WHAT YOU TALKING ABOUT MY ARM LOOK LIKE ARM OF MASTURBATOR FROM RAPID MOUSE-A MOVEMENT!!! :korean:
     
  9. SuperStar

    SuperStar Peasant

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Messages:
    794
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0

    But didnt you say that they arent good?
     
  10. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2000
    Messages:
    13,721
    Likes Received:
    18
    Market Rating:
    0
    No. They are good. But only because they play for like twelve hours a day.
     
  11. Strader

    Strader Peasant

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    Cut with the wise cracks cow. If you can't take things you don't have to assume that they're my "korean gods". They are just two friends that I met while helping kids out at the local children's camp.

    There's no point in discussing something with you when you always go to the point of exageration on everything and resort to subtle insults. Like you said, many Korean people play a lot, so they get better more often. It's not the race, it's only the fact that they seem to like the game so much. Other than being good at SC they're pretty ordinary guys.

    As to the headset thing, I don't think you see the benefit. Perhaps you should re-read my comments on it. You can build from all your factories, etc... at the same time and so on. It's not used in tournies for the sake of fairness but it's pretty impressive.

    Listen if you're not going to bother reading anything that I say then perhaps I should stop bothering to listen to your comments too. I said that I don't play the game anymore. I played it for years and I didn't have school during some of those years either, just home school, which gave me plenty of time to play. Just because I don't play now doesn't mean that I don't remember anything about the game. Please try to read what a person says before insulting them. I try my best to read your posts carefully. *sigh*
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2003
  12. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2001
    Messages:
    9,325
    Likes Received:
    34
    Market Rating:
    0
    I've watched all the replays to the ladder championships since that feature was introduced, and a whole bunch of so-called "gosu" matches from various replay libraries. If there is a secret calibre of player that I haven't seen out there that doesn't have an equal on battle.net then it'd surprise me. I'm quite the skeptic of someone being that good and not playing in, or having an equal playing in, any of the well recognized tournaments such as official ladder, KBK, or other organized competitions.

    I have mixed feelings reguarding anyone with incredible reflexes with a mouse anywhere (yours is the second mention on these boards of Koreans in particular having advanced dexterity with the pointer) when I can match or exceed their ability with hotkeys and grouping.

    Voice recognition commands? It piques my interest, but also my wariness, it irks me that someone would use something artificial to enhance their playing ability...

    I invited you, or your friends, to play with me and use the strategy randomly, I'm not asking for an arranged game. If we play a couple more clan matches, just pull it out in one of the games (and not the first one) so I don't particularly know when it's coming. I pointed out how it would be unfair for us to test it in an arranged game.

    If they would beat me so easily then I welcome the learning experience. Your statistics seem somewhat inflated by their contextual placement, at minimum.

    I think you may underestimate me, but even moreso you overestimate, or at least do so in explanation, the ability of your friends relevant to this strategy. Even if they could micro BC's well against me, they would not win against a player of equal skill.

    I also sincerely hope the following was a typo ;).

     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2003
  13. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2000
    Messages:
    13,721
    Likes Received:
    18
    Market Rating:
    0
    My original statement stands. No "good" player would attempt an attack consisting entirely of battlecruisers and nothing else. I don't care how well the koreans play. If they're so good they wouldn't even consider using that tactic.
     
  14. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2000
    Messages:
    13,721
    Likes Received:
    18
    Market Rating:
    0
    And I'm not denying the fact that koeans could kick my ass in starcraft. But I really don't care. Your posts are coming off like a twelve year old girl idolizing a boyband.

    And there's absolutely no way two guys could win against six humans. Two against four is possible, but would be very difficult. No matter how fast they build their defenses no one can defend against an attack of six players. Or even one against three.
     
  15. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2000
    Messages:
    25,758
    Likes Received:
    27
    Market Rating:
    16
    what does gosu mean?
     
  16. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2001
    Messages:
    9,325
    Likes Received:
    34
    Market Rating:
    0
    It's the Korean word for "skilled", if I remember correctly. I bring it up since it's so taken into "battle.net society", where master players are referred to using it and other Korean terms probably related to the country's aptitude for producing specimens of elite skill. It is applied reguardless of nationality or tongue.

    More specifically, I bring it up because I believe both that there are Westerners as good as any Korean at the game, but also even moreso that these two friends of Strader's will have equals on battle.net and that's it's highly likely I've seen players of such skill. Maybe it wasn't so insulting him mentioning that I had no idea what I was talking about, but probably wrong if anything.
     
  17. Autolycus

    Autolycus Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    3,410
    Likes Received:
    20
    Market Rating:
    0
    you're all babos~~kekeke :korean:
     
  18. Strader

    Strader Peasant

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    Cow my posts only come off that way because you choose to see them that way. You tend to pick the negative side to things. I am just stating the facts to further my examples. The way the guy beat the six players was the rush early and take out as many opponents before he was scouted. If you can't believe in the possibility of this happening then I feel sorry for you. It wasn't two guys, it was 1 vs 6 btw. I agree, there is no way that somebody can fend off six players at once but if they can manage to eliminate one or two quick enough then they can.

    Yeah, that was a typo Haite. Fixed. hehe

    Watching replays is no substitute for actually watching the player in action. You're not likely to see what other things they are clicking on while you watching them manipulate things on screen. In reality they're all over the map because they're moving playing at such a speed. I wasn't exagerating anything. After playing against these players for a while I just gave up any idea of ever getting to that level, I still tried my best but didn't get my hopes up. I could never hope to play so fast, it would just mentally wear me out.

    I totally agree with Haite when he says that they could not pull something off against a player of equal skill. Most certainly not.

    You'll just have to take my word for things. I'm not the kind of person who lies. Lies are pathetic and usually a waste of effort. If you can't trust somebody who you've been associated with for some time then that's your problem. I believe what you guys say. Trust is an important thing. I will not argue this further because it's pointless when my friends cannot play due to university schedules.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2003
  19. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2000
    Messages:
    13,721
    Likes Received:
    18
    Market Rating:
    0
    A 1v6 game is not possible unless the opponents are five year olds. It is not possible.
     
  20. Strader

    Strader Peasant

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    It is possible and I have seen it. One of the opponent was 10 and the others were, 17, 18, 19, 24 and 48 respectively. I wouldn't have believed it if I had seen it myself. I just don't see how a person could defend that. The map was large though, which stalled any rushing and the team of one knew the map well. You may choose to not believe what I have said but I have nothing to gain by lying. It happened as I described.
     

Hitometer: 53,811,994 since 1995