Portal   Forum   Members   Market   Gallery   Events

Starcraft "Training Course"?

Discussion in 'Starcraft' started by Haite, Jan 4, 2003.

?

Should a clan "training course" be created for Starcraft?

  1. Yes

    8 vote(s)
    72.7%
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Undecided

    3 vote(s)
    27.3%
  1. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2002
    Messages:
    2,332
    Likes Received:
    2
    Market Rating:
    0
    There´re guys who totally own with psionic storm, you have to micro like hell to do that.
     
  2. Strader

    Strader Peasant

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    /me broodlings Mr. Templar *pop* :eek:

    Yes, Psi Storm definetely owns when used properly.
     
  3. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2001
    Messages:
    9,325
    Likes Received:
    34
    Market Rating:
    0
    I would call mass BC's a newbie tactic, but only because it can be easily defeated with any race :p.
     
  4. Strader

    Strader Peasant

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    Are you joking? If you have enough BC and know how to use them properly you can defeat almost any opponent, save people who have been given enough time to destroy their entire army and then remake a counter for them. Zerg can counter it fairly well though with the Dark Swarm. Scourge are nearly useless if the player upgrades their weapons once and uses the attack move command in conjuntion with "hold position". Other races have a difficult time vs 24+ BCs.

    As Protoss you could develop Arbiters and then stasis the fleet and destroy their base whilst they are frozen but not many people get arbiters and that would take time to get once you spotted the BCs.

    Terran could lockdown the BCs but nobody uses Ghosts that often and so again that would take time. Also the BC guy can throw in a few medics to cure them.

    Zerg can, as I previously mentioned, use Dark Swarm and plague. This is quite effective and yet if the BC player controls his units well they will be spread out a bit. Using hit and run tactics near cliffs and water ways the player could just move into the base from a less defended location and destroy much of the enemy base before the zerg could stop it.

    BCs aren't the uber strategy but they are a strategy and they do quite a bit of damage if you manage to hide them from the enemy so he is not prepared. Compared to many other all-unit "strategies" it's one of the best, though rather boring I might say. You don't just rush in with mass BC either, you must use them carefully.

    My Korean friends are quite good at SC and respect the BC. Of course they fear other units such as defilers a decent amount more. They are quite dangerous when massed but if you scout well enough, they're usually not too big a problem when you have a prepared counter. BCs are rarely defeated "easily" in such numbers unless you are Zerg and use defilers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2003
  5. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2000
    Messages:
    13,721
    Likes Received:
    18
    Market Rating:
    0
    I refer to it as a newbie tactic because a newbie to the game could use it just as well as an expert. It requires no skill. There’s no micromanaging or anything. It’s just, mass and rightclick on the other side of the enemy’s base.
    If I’m bored, or up against a really easy foe then I might use it. But it’s still a tactic that requires no skill.

    If you’re zerg you can easily counter it with plague. Battlecruisers are huge and mass together. Throw in some ensnare to really mess them up. If you’re playing a serious game as zerg you should have both of these spells already.

    If you’re playing protoss you can use feedback on the cruisers. Due to their massive energy storage you can seriously harm the fleet with it. Then throw a couple corsairs at the remaining mass.

    Alone, battlecruisers are easily stopped. When massed they are prone to other spells. Which is why you need to use a few different units if your attack and micro.

    If you’re playing as terran you lock down a bunch and nuke if available, or just release some goliaths with missile upgrade (which you should have). Valkyries also clean them up fairly quickly as long as they aren’t the ones sustaining the damage.

    Also battlecruisers are VERY expensive. A good attack would use two or three with yamoto and heavy backup fire. Not as the main attack. To be able to build 24 battlecruisers you'd have to be playing a ****ty BGH map. Which is lame and newbish. On a real map it would take you an hour at least to build that many unless you owned every expansion on the map.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2003
  6. Strader

    Strader Peasant

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    I have tons of replays with pro players building to BCs on maps like LT. You don't need a money map at all. BCs are not that expensive considering the units you need to equal them in a fight. Any killed player can pump them out on a non-money map without too much difficulty. Just get two expansions while fighting with regular units.

    I agree with you when in that it takes little skill. In that sense it is newbish but it is effective if you can get it going. Most of the counters you and I listed, except the zerg ones, aren't all that commonly used.

    As for the feedback and the corsair idea... Barely anyone builds Dark Archons so they wouldn't have enough on hand. That and Corsairs barely do any damage to the highly armored BCs. If you did happen to have Dark Archons, MC would be the better choice so long as you had enough to at least thin the BC ranks.

    If it wasn't fairly effective then there wouldn't be so many complicated ways to counter them. Other strategies usually have simpler counters. Tough units usually require difficult to pull off strategies. (Exempting Zerg of course.) There is micromanagement though. You need to manage your units against scourge, cannon the turrets and focus fire on deadly units such as defilers but other than that they are fairly self-sufficient.

    Like I said, it's just one tactic. The units that you counter it with are not used all that much and that offers it some protection from the two adversaries of the Zerg. The other strategies are more fun though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2003
  7. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2001
    Messages:
    9,325
    Likes Received:
    34
    Market Rating:
    0
    They're defeated easily because every race has at least one single unit, or more such keystone units of a succesful counter, that could easily spell defeat for the whole mass when prepared under the alert of good reconaissance.
     
  8. Strader

    Strader Peasant

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    My point is that in the hands of a pro you don't get that recon often. If you're Terran, perhaps but people can always have their units wait somewhere not likely to be scanned. Plus to make matters worse most of the counters for the BC are not commonly built.
     
  9. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2000
    Messages:
    13,721
    Likes Received:
    18
    Market Rating:
    0
    Uh...Yeah, I'm sure the other player wouldn't do any reconnasance for the hour that you're turtling building battlecruisers.

    Anyone playing zerg in a vs humans game must have defilers and plague. That's one of the best units in the game for zerg. It can absolutely destroy an attacking wave.
     
  10. akira

    akira Peasant

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    60
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    What upsets me most about those two units (carriors and battlecruisers) is that thier the primary unit for all BSers. You know your gonna be BS'ed by the noobs that create tons of them. Starcraft would be better off without them. anyway i just got back from being BSed by carriors , so does anyone have any useful counters against Carriors w/terran?


    mirco managing , teamwork (if any) , and suprise attacks - are the tools of a skillful SC player.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2003
  11. SuperStar

    SuperStar Peasant

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Messages:
    794
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    Mass wraiths, and goliaths should be good. Knock out the Arbiter first and hit just the carriers. I dont know if it gits any easier then that, actually. You should also try and attack his base while you hold off his carriers.
     
  12. Strader

    Strader Peasant

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    If you want to turtle that's up to you but a skilled player would play normally and build a BC once in a while then unleash some upon the enemy.

    Already mentioned that Zerg was exempt.

    If you expect that he is building carriers do what Superstar said and build goliaths with Charon boosters and throw in a few ghosts to lockdown some of the Carriers. You don't need to lockdown them all, just a few. Carriers don't fair well against Goliaths if you have enough of them and don't let them attack from a hill where they have a tactical advantage.

    Edit: Almost forgot. If you really want to have fun with the Carrier guy, build TONS of marines with good upgrades and just have them shoot down all his interceptors. Just make sure you have enough marines and stim them. This is more risky than the Goliath thing though.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2003

Hitometer: 53,586,170 since 1995