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Saddam / Bush / War / Taxes thread

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Kalgareth, Dec 14, 2003.

  1. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    Wow, this thread went to hell in a hurry.

    Some various 2 cents...

    Iraq: I am on the fence here. Saddam was an evil man who needed to be removed, and I am happy he is out of power. But it is unclear (at least to me) whether he was really that big of a threat to anyone but his own people. The next weapon of mass destruction they find will be the first one, and his links to the 9/11 terrorists are tenuous. Is it good Saddam is gone? Yes. Was it worth the lives we've lost and $150 B (and counting) we've spent? Perhaps not. Those lives and money could have been put to good use here on our own soil.

    Taxes: Of course the richest people contribute the most total income tax revenue. (Speaking of the USA here). It is a simplisitic approximation, but not a bad one, that the richest 5% of the population possesses 95% of the country's wealth. Even in a flat tax scenario the upper class would therefore contribute a disproportionate amount of income tax revenue. But the true tax burden to the individual should be expressed as a percentage of that individual's income, not as total dollars. And to be fair you should consider more than just income tax. You also need to figure in things like sales tax and property tax, which as a rule pull a higher percentage out of poor incomes than they do rich ones. When you take all things into account, the total tax burden (not just income tax) expressed as a percentage of total income is relatively equal from bottom to top. Federal income tax cuts and raises make for good sound bites and campaign ploys, not to mention fodder for loud-mouth conservative radio hosts and authors (read: lying demagogues), but are really only a fraction of the total picture.

    Howard Dean: Um, what to say here? I am a Democrat, but this guy is like chewing on aluminum foil. The jury is still out on this one, but I will be surprised if he can knock Bush out of his seat. There are better candidates in the running, Leiberman for one, but Dean will most likely get the nomination. The Bush/Dean debates should be entertaining at least.
     
  2. Wulf

    Wulf MSC Knight and Donator

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    Omg yeah :laugh:. I can't wait to watch that :evil:
     
  3. Draco_Auric

    Draco_Auric Peasant

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    Yes, we do have children here in Canada. Now I don't know about Sweden or the US, but here we practice a little thing called, NOT LETTING KIDS PLAY IN MINEFIELDS!
     
  4. Wulf

    Wulf MSC Knight and Donator

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    Yeah, its called common sense on the parents part.
     
  5. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

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    You ain´t got not phucking Minefields right next to your house, do you?

    What if you have to work all phucking day to get food, what if looking after your children 24/7 is something you simply cannot do?

    Don´t be an ignorant bastard.
     
  6. Draco_Auric

    Draco_Auric Peasant

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    No, but I have a rather large road, and several train tracks near my house. I sure as hell don't let my charges play in or near them.


    If I and my spouse were working all day to support our family, and we could not afford any schooling or other child care options, our kids would be with one of us or a friend/family member learning a trade and/or helping out. Certainly not traipsing about in a hazardous area!
     
  7. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

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    You think it´s so simple, you think yourself to be above the the Iraqi people.
    You claim to know better, that they are unintelligent and that you would do much better in thier situation.

    It´s a war down there, things are not simple. These people are just as smart as you and I´m sure they do everything in thier power to prevent thier children from getting hurt by duds and mines.
     
  8. Kalgareth

    Kalgareth Peasant

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    Child Care?! Do you think that in the current state of affairs in Iraq the people even have the option of contemplating CHILD CARE?

    What part of Baghdad do you think ISN'T a "harzardous area"? I am sure you saw the live feeds from downtown just like I did. All those bombs weren't hitting just military installations. The downtown area of Baghdad was an absolute WAR ZONE as was much of the surrounding area. You are so sold on the fact that the US military is that good that they didn't hurt civilians that you can't accept the fact that numerous nonmilitants were killed or had their homes destroyed by ordinance.

    Give me a break.
     
  9. Draco_Auric

    Draco_Auric Peasant

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    I'm sorry but I just have a hard time feeling sorry for people messing around with unexploded munitions.
     
  10. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

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    I guess that would be completely in line with your signature.
     
  11. Draco_Auric

    Draco_Auric Peasant

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    Oh, I'm sorry I must have forgotten that if things go sour in a country people stop caring for their kids and just let them wander the streets.


    Hey, its not like the coalition forces were carpeting the area with cluster bombs, and they have been doing some clean up work(not as much as there could be unfortunately). I'm also well aware that there were civilian casualties, they are kind of hard to avoid when Saddam's troops were using human shields and placing military materials in hospitals.
     
  12. Draco_Auric

    Draco_Auric Peasant

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    I just think people need to accept the responsibility for their actions. That's why I have a problem with the "my opinion/belief cannot be debated" statement.
     
  13. Wulf

    Wulf MSC Knight and Donator

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    Actually, that seem to be your oppinion of them. You seem to think that they don't know how do take care of their children. And if your country is constantly at war, you start to learn how to deal with it and teach your children to as well from a very early age.
     
  14. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

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    I do?

    I NEVER said they did not know how to take care of thier children, I said that caring for them is a lot more difficult if your country has been bombed into oblivion.

    It was was Draco who implied that they did not take care of thier children by letting them play in dangerous places.

    I am offended.
     
  15. Wulf

    Wulf MSC Knight and Donator

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    Everyone else is saying that they are smart enough to take care of their children, whereas you are saying that they aren't
     
  16. BIG T

    BIG T Peasant

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    bitch bitch bitch
     
  17. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    :stupid:
     
  18. MisterHalleck

    MisterHalleck Peasant

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    i agree with Kraahl, for once. THe kids, from what I know, generally don't play in the minefields... they are scrounging for whatever they can find to eat and such. Also, in many nations (such as Cambodia) there are active, evil people laying mines in civilian areas to contol the populace through fear.

    As for playing with unexploded munitions? That's grounds for a Darwin award. Let the morons kill themselves, please.

    and my stance on the war is that we spend way too much on our military anyways. We really need to cut a lot of our operations... Did you know a single B-2 bomber costs $2 BILLION? As a yaxpayer, I'm not willing to give some company a contract to build a factory and research all this stuff, then spend another $2 BILLION, PER PLANE, just to make it safer for a 6-man bomber crew? nah-ah. They can send in a squad of cheaper B-52's and get shot at before I let them divert that much money away from education. I mean really, have you guys any idea what would happen if we spend that much money on our public colleges? One bomber alone pays for tuition for a million college students per year. I'd say that's worth a lot more than a few dead iraquis that could be killed by much less expensive means.

    Not to say that the war was wrong though. The above rant was just me versus the existing military. I think the war itself was ocmpletely justified. I see Saddam as only a secondary target, a source of information to locate the many terrorist cells he sponsored. And if it just so happens that he's an evil dictator at the same time, well, then now we have an excuse to pry the information out of the bastard! Howard Dean had no idea what he was saying that "Saddam's capture has not made the US any safer" - A day after we captured Saddam, we found papers in the hut he was captured in that provided us with information to capture over 70- SEVENTY - terrorists along with an Iraqi financier. Tell me that hasn't made America any safer, bullshit!

    Bush is a moron. But Dean just doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, Gephardt is a lying, stone-faced, generalizing scumbag, and Lieberman doesn't know what he wants to do other than the opposite of whatever Bush does. Every time Bush does something, these democrats say they want the exact opposite. If Bush was to walk along a cliff, I'm sure they'd all jump off it just to be opposite to him...
     

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