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Religion again

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by DunAzrael, May 12, 2003.

  1. DunAzrael

    DunAzrael Peasant

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    I disagree. Isolation in some variation is essential to any religion where introspection is predominant. Buddhism, muslim, islam, Hindu et cetera all have a profound belief in ONENESS with god, allah, the universe. So to say, people all over the world are secure in their faith without "support groups". If your gonna claim to know God, then I say again, being alone with "it" is essential. That's one of my problems with christianity. It has become more of a social group and the obvious majority in American society. I'd like to consider myself a buddhist, kind of a Dharma bum, you know, seeing without seeing, hearing without hearing, understanding through oblivion, feeling the void with the soul.
     
  2. Vokbain

    Vokbain Peasant and Donator

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    What the hell? Buddhism is about being at one with yourself. It has nothing to do with any kind of god. Its a way of life, not a religion.
     
  3. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    Let me clarify...

    There are very few people who practice a religion of which they are the only member. It's human nature to band together with others because there is strength in numbers.

    I guess my comment doesn't directly apply to Nightcrawler since he practices a "Jesus religion," and those religions are practiced by many. But as Jedsia pointed out, Nightcrawler practices a religion whose other members reject him, so that kind of makes him the only member of his religion. More power to him for going it alone.
     
  4. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

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    I thought he was Catholic, hence the rosary beads.

    But he would be shunned anyway by most humans, including his church. Especially since in appearance he looks like a demon. Which is why I think he takes great pains in showing his faith through the angelic scarring/tatooing.

    What he said to Storm was quite striking, about pitying those who fear/misunderstand him, rather than hate them. His faith is an example to others, that no matter the odds, you can have a strong relationship with your God and you can be a good person.

    I go to Methodist Church, which has an "open doors, open minds, open hearts" attitude. No matter what religion you come from, you are accepted and not demeaned. And the Church is very open with it's own members, less apt to "dictate" how you show your faith.
     
  5. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    Sounds like Unitarian Universalism.
     
  6. Beeble

    Beeble Peasant

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    It has also been linked to brainwashing used on the japanese kamikazes, among other cult ideals.
     
  7. Kaeric

    Kaeric Peasant

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    I go to Methodist Church, which has an "open doors, open minds, open hearts" attitude. No matter what religion you come from, you are accepted and not demeaned. And the Church is very open with it's own members, less apt to "dictate" how you show your faith.

    I found his tatoos/scarring intereasting because he called them angelic symbols....I cant remember who, but the patterns are copied from some tribal thing, somewhere tropical. Anyway, I foudn this intereasting because while the symbols are religious they have nothing to do with any "jesus religion" as jake so aptly put it.

    My church is similar, and ironically is Roman Catholic.
     
  8. Vokbain

    Vokbain Peasant and Donator

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    Buddhism isn't from Japan. Buddhists don't hurt others either.

    It could have easily been twisted to brainwash people, and it probably was. But then again, so could Christianity.
     
  9. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

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    Methodist idealism from UMC website:

    The mission of the Church is to make disciples of Jesus Christ by proclaiming the good news of God's grace and thus seeking the fulfillment of God's reign and realm in the world. The fulfillment of God's reign and realm in the world is the vision Scripture holds before us. The United Methodist Church affirms that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the Savior of the world, and the Lord of all. We respect persons of all religious faiths and we defend religious freedom for all persons. Jesus' words in Matthew 28:19-20 provide the Church with our mission: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you."
    This mission is our grace-filled response to the Reign of God in the world announced by Jesus. God's grace is active everywhere, at all times, carrying out this purpose as revealed in the Bible. It is expressed in God's covenant with Abraham and Sarah, in the Exodus of Israel from Egypt, and in the ministry of the prophets. It is fully embodied in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is experienced in the ongoing creation of a new people by the Holy Spirit.
    ---

    One thing I really like about our church is our rev. takes everyday stories and fits them into her sermons, making it easier to understand and apply. It's also not over-bearing. You don't walk out of church thinking if you don't do such-and-such that you're not faithfull enough. I've been to some churches that make you feel guilty if you don't follow their word exactly.

    I think Methodist came from Catholic. I think the founders broke off from Catholic to create the Methodist church. I'll have to see. We're relatively new members here. I grew up in Lutheran and Nazarine churches mostly and just started going again to this church.
     
  10. Beeble

    Beeble Peasant

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    Jedsia, all of the contemporary churches I go to do the same thing with sermons. I like it alot, makes it very not-bland.
     
  11. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

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    Just an idea...

    If god, by defination, is perfect. Then he/she cannot exist.
    Perfection does not exist in the material world.

    A circle cannot exist in the material world because a circle has the same length from the middle to the edge (I could perhaps rephrase that but my english is not, as you know, perfect).
    The circle only exists in the mind.

    God exists in the mind, but he cannot exist in the material world. Not as a perfect being. Therefore god is not.
     
  12. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    This thread sure turned into a debate fast...

    Kraahl, God is not material, so he can be, and supposedly is, perfect.
     
  13. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

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    I don´t see it that way. God exists in our minds, that is not the same thing as real existance.
    God cannot exist in our, the material, world. Thus he does not exist.
     
  14. Draco_Auric

    Draco_Auric Peasant

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    What's to say that that the material realm is the only realm?

    Also, why can't perfection exist?
     
  15. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

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    This is another debate that's been tried over and over. It's never going to be agreed upon.

    I beleive there is a God, and that there is a world of unknowns out there. How small-like thinking is it to say there is only the world we can see? Besides the fact that the universe is an immense place, how can we say what is out there for sure. And how can we say that Heaven isn't a place in the universe beyond our scope of seeing.

    No one can completely prove God's existence, hence faith. But no one can completely disprove Him either. It's not possible. We have not explored ALL realms, ALL of the universe. We do not have the information to make a scientific declaration on the existence of God.

    Faith that he exists is what drives religion. Science has even proven some events in the bible. The bible was written by people who "knew" God and Christ, and many events have been scietifically proven. Whether they were trully "divine" is yet to be "proved"

    http://www.gospelcom.net/rbc/ds/q0402/point3.html
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2003
  16. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

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    "Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe - a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is indeed quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive."
    Albert Einstein (1879-1955), theoretical physicist, scientific genius

    "If we find the answer [the unified theory], it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason - for we would know the mind of God."
    Stephen Hawking (1942- ) British physicist

    "There are more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history."
    Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727), English physicist, one of the greatest scientists of all time.


    I find those people hard to argue with. Respected sceintists who can also justify a belief in God .
     
  17. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

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    Perfection is impossible, it´s just part of the meaning behind the word perfect.

    The perfect circle cannot exist, can you agree on that?
     
  18. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

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    I don´t belive in that.
     
  19. Jedsia

    Jedsia Peasant

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    It's not worth aruging with you. I really don't want to sound confrontational, but you really don't seem to beleive in anything.

    Or perhaps in being a teenager you already know everything and have to be proven wrong? I know I don't know everything for sure. But you seem to be very close minded when it comes to many things. At least that is the impression I get. I am trying not the generalize, but it's what I see here.

    In almost every agrument you have taken a stance that leaves no room for new ideas. You only seem to want to beleive what You want to, not other perspectives. Your way cannot always be the right way, and other people cannot always be wrong. I remember I thought I knew it all, but then I grew up and realized there's alot out there to learn.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2003
  20. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    Religion is not a scientific institution.

    The scientific method attempts to control variables, explain happenings with theories, and constantly questions and disproves its own theories. Religious institutions are content to accept their theory on faith... their own unified theory if you will.

    In that way, Stephen Hawking was right... "God" represents a unified theory. Religion found its unified theory long ago... God.
     

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