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Raid conventions?

Discussion in 'Game Help' started by Jakeman, May 25, 2005.

  1. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    What are the usual conventions for running a raid? I haven't organized many raids myself, only 5-man groups. In raids you always have people calling for MT and MA, and I don't really know how that is supposed to work. A "how to for raids" would be nice.
     
  2. MisterHalleck

    MisterHalleck Peasant

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    I know that MT is Main Tank...

    For upper level instance runs he's almost always a Defense-spec, Sword-Shield warrior with HP between 6 and 7k and anywhere from 150 to 300 fire resist. Anything less, and your healers won't be able to keep him alive against bosses. He's meant to go in and whack on the mob(s) for a while (depends on the mob, but for Onyxia or Ragnaros you'd want him to have a full minute of only him attacking) while the healers keep him alive. That way, when you order the DPS to unload on the mob, they won't steal agro and cause a wipe.

    A Raid needs to be well-organized; any mob that's so strong it needs 40 maxed-out characters to kill is going to require some coordination. I don't know how other guilds do it, but a "Raid Commander" who distributes orders by /yell would seem like the best way to do things if not everyone had a mic. Also, loot distribution gets complicated in situations like that so I think for anything we do we should have a Master Looter who distributes items according to need (don't need any ninjas like on that clip Auto posted).
     
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  3. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    I know about agro management and giving orders. I like to think that I'm a good leader in those respects. ;)

    What type of character is usually on MA (main assist), and what is their role? I hear about people using "assist macros"... how do those work?
     
  4. Scorpion

    Scorpion Peasant

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    MA stands for 'Main Assistant' or 'Main Assisted'. MA are usually Rogues, Pallys, or another Warrior. The MA is the one that you are suppose to be helping. Usually you can make a macro with:
    /assist <MA's name>;
    <attack type here>

    This would make it so that whoever the MA targets you will also be attacking. For my mage I usually cast Fireball since I see some MA tabbing through the mobs and casting any instant spell (Missles, Fireblast) would draw aggro on you. I also spam the macro button since they might be tabbing for the closest target. A slow casting spell is best because you can see if they are actually attacking the mob before you actually cast the spell.

    The MA is responsible for picking off other mobs while the MT is tanking the biggest threat. Since MT is suppose to have so much hp, they only need a healer to distract the mob long enough while the MA and the group kill off the easier ones. Only after all the weaker mobs are dead should the MA and group help the MT and his main healer.
     
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  5. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    Main Assist is the person in charge of what everyone is fighting.

    It is more efficient to focus the entire raid on a single enemy, rather than spread out, because as soon as that first enemy is dropped, their dps is removed from the battle, and it becomes that much easier for the raid. This is the case even though focusing on a single enemy or focusing on the entire enemy formation should yield victory in the same amount of time, in theory. In practice, because of the decrease in expenditure, it is faster and less costly to focus fire on a single enemy.

    That said, the main assist selects the enemy to focus on (and uses his judgement on what gets top priority). In return, the entire raid uses assist to auto-target what the main assist has selected, and thus the raid has cohesion.

    The raid leader does not have as much direct, micro-management control over a raid the way he does on a 5-man. He must delegate out to those he trusts for MT, MA, healers, dps, special abilities (CC, etc), off tanks, etc.
     
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  6. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    So you have to edit the assist macro for each raid?
     
  7. Scorpion

    Scorpion Peasant

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    Yea but it's easy. Just type in /macro, click on your assist macro, change the name and save. You don't have to place the macro icon on your button bar because it automatically gets updated. Takes about 5-10 sec depending on how long the name is and latency.
     
  8. MisterHalleck

    MisterHalleck Peasant

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    Healers benfit a lot from macros that they can tag to Raidassist - if a raid member is low on life, they can make a macro to press one button and the macro decides what level of healing to apply or whether to not heal at all if someone else is casting on that person.

    I suggest we all get used to using CT_Raidassist... it definitely seems worth using.
     
  9. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    Just to make sure I understand...

    So spamming the macro overrides the previous action? i.e. if the MA changes targets while you are mid-cast, you'll stop casting and restart on the new target?

    I really have to start experimenting with macros.

    Sure, makes sense. Basically works the same way as in Warcraft and Starcraft, except now you only have to worry about getting yourself on target instead of all your stimmed Marines.
     
  10. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    CT Raid Assist and /assist are two different things. Still, CT Raid Assist is probably one of the most important mods to have, and if we want to be invited back to more with A Modest Proposal, then they'll want us to be using it.
     
  11. JollyRedGiant

    JollyRedGiant MSC Commander

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    i got CTRaid for the MC run we had last weekend. its cool, but has a lot of different aspects that could be very confusing at first.
     
  12. Scorpion

    Scorpion Peasant

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    No it won't change targets during mid-cast. That's why I suggest casting a slow spell that requires time cause you can just move a little to cancel your spell if you don't see the mob's hp go down. You can spam the macro again for the right target.
     
  13. Lyanna

    Lyanna MSC Friend

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    Everyone explained pretty well what a MT and MA are suppose to be.
    The short of it is everyone help the main assist to take down the targeted mob faster while the main tank holds the attention of the other mobs.

    This way all the dps are on the targeted mob (usually the mob that is most dangersous....ie flametongue in UBRS).

    And USUALLY the MA shouldn't be changing targets (unless something unexpected comes up). The MT however, are more likely to do this if we get an unexpected mob, and he has to take aggro on that one too to allow the group to take down the targeted mob.

    There is usually one PULLER and the MAIN SHEEPER in the raid. Puller can varied...the really good ones I've seen so far are rogues and mages. Sheepers should always take a "Constant Side". Meaning if Jaden and Ertai are sheepers for a raid, Jaden should ALWAYS sheep right and Ertai should AlWAYS sheep left. If the raid leader calls out "Sheep right and mid", then it would be Jaden sheeping right and Ertai sheeping the mid.

    Sheeping should always be done after sap (I know this is a basic rule, but this is for all those that are not aware). :P Also, always wait for sheep or shackle before attacking...that way you won't accidentally break the sheep or shackle. If you get wacked once or twice by the mob just to wait to see which one is being sheeped or shackled, it would be okay. You usually won't die from that. ;)

    For sheepers, keep an eye on your sheep and be readied to sheep when necessary. And for everyone else, if a mob comes unsheeped, don't hit it. The sheeper will know to resheep...if he is an observant sheeper. :P I know most have an instinctive reaction to "save the cloth wearers when the mob turns on them" but if you hit it the sheeper or shackler can 't resheep or reshackle.

    This should also apply to sapping.

    There is one breaker of sap or sheep and it is usually the MA. Sap should be broken before sheep in the majority of cases.

    In cases where sap fails (rogues with IMP SAP) has a 10% chance of sap failing), just let the rogue die and then the rezzer can rez him. Or the rogue can vanish.

    As for loot, it all depends. On guild runs you know your people and guild loot rules apply.

    In an outside guild raid, it is usually group loot (and sometimes roll on greens sometimes it is set to rare). However, when it comes to the bosses, the Raid Leader usually sets this to ML (Master Looter) to prevent "accidental roll"
    To make things go faster, ML will usually as for everyone to say pass or need and then proceed to roll. He will usually gives a countdown, 5,4,3,2,1 to indicate that after the count down ends he will give item to the winner of the roll and that if you roll after the countdown ends to indicate you need it, then it is tough luck for you.

    Also, you need to come close to the ML to do the roll because if you are too far away then he can't see your roll.

    In a large raid, non-related chatter should be kept to a minimum unless everyone has played with everyone else and are familar with the instances. This way the raid leader can get his instruction across to everyone. I find that usually typing in caps (I know this is not etically accepted) but it helps when leading a raid full of new people. :)

    As, always the cardinal rule...."assist the MA"!
     
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  14. MisterHalleck

    MisterHalleck Peasant

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    I did my first Baron run last night, just for kicks. I was the leader and my friend who proposed the raid to me suggested I do Master Looter. 5-4-3-2-1 countdown is a great thing because people have no excuse to bitch once you give the item to someone... and when you're in a raid, not everyone even gives a shit as to what items drop as they are only after their set item.

    I'd suggest using ML for any raid, it's just more organized and people have to actually talk about who needs and who doesn't before the items are distributed.
     
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  15. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    Master looter is awesome. There were problems with it before which is why no one used it. Did they fix them in the latest patch?
     
  16. Calendryll

    Calendryll MSC Commander and Donator

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    There is still some minor problems with it but I think all the major ones have been fixed. It really is the best thing to use because it cuts down on the accidental ninjas that take place.
     
  17. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    They need to allow for secondary master looters. I have been in groups where the ML dropped before he could distribute the loot. No loot. :(
     
  18. MisterHalleck

    MisterHalleck Peasant

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    I have been using CT_Raidassist in pickup groups, most recently on my first pickup raid to UBRS. It seriously makes my job 100000x easier, and a lot more people use it than I thought.

    For the sake of all our raids, as MSC High Priest I issue a decree ordering all Knights of MSC to use CTRA for the benfit of the Alliance!

    :p
     
  19. Lyanna

    Lyanna MSC Friend

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    I have been in a group where the ML ninjaed and left. :(
     
  20. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    Is that that crappy add-on that spams low health messages?
     

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