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PvP grind

Discussion in 'MSC Clan' started by Jakeman, Feb 8, 2006.

  1. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    Sorry if I am unresponsive or unavailable in-game. I am doing the PvP grind right now which demands much of my time and concentration, all day every day.
     
  2. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    Isn't it fun? I wish I had time to do all day, every day. I barely held onto Rank 8 this week, I've made zero progress since getting here, in either honor or rep.
     
  3. MisterHalleck

    MisterHalleck Peasant

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    You're going for GM jake?
     
  4. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    Tentative yes. I need to see the grade of the mountain before I decide to climb it. Currently rank 9.
     
  5. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    Reports say you need at least 200k honor per week once you hit Rank 10.

    We should start doing preformed groups, if we have enough people who are willing to stick to PvP for a while.
     
  6. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    That sounds way way way too high. 150k honor got me 95% of a rank last week. No way the scales would change that radically within 1 rank.

    Also, I believe the scale is more in terms of "standing" than "honor."
     
  7. Calendryll

    Calendryll MSC Commander and Donator

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    At rank 10 im still gaining decent ground with 100,000 a week.
     
  8. MisterHalleck

    MisterHalleck Peasant

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    I've had conversations with GM's before. I knew a guy on Proudmoore from rank 10 to 14 and it took him a few months of nothing but PVP (he was a warrior, we were talking weapons together :P )

    Once you get to rank 10, expect to see the real competition. It gets really competitive and sometimes people try to scare you away from going further, since the numer of slots for anything 11-14 is so relatively small.

    Good luck Cal and Jake! The GM bow looks positively sick and it's better than the hunter epic quest bow, and the staff... well I almost creamed my pants just looking at the stats :)
     
  9. Autolycus

    Autolycus Forum Moderator

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    rank 12 is when it takes a turn for the retarded, i wouldnt really strive for anything beyond this unless you have 10 hours a day to spend in battlegrounds
     
  10. Calendryll

    Calendryll MSC Commander and Donator

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    I was just headed for rank 11 and thats about it.
     
  11. Delphiki

    Delphiki MSC Friend

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    Not only that but good luck finding an uber Vent team to join and steamroll PuG's...

    CP grind from rank 10 on is get into BG as fast as possible and steamroll, rinse and repeat
     
  12. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    Group support is not required to make rank 14. You just need to be consistent with your PvP. (says many "casual" GMs I have talked to)

    I have 10 hours a day to play. Rank 12 is the minimum I want so I can get the gloves and legs, so I would be satisfied with that if the hill is too steep.
     
  13. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    My Powerball numbers didn't hit so unfortunately I cannot say the same.

    I'll let you level Firemane for me once you get Jaden to Rank 12. :D
     
  14. Calendryll

    Calendryll MSC Commander and Donator

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    Written by an anonymous player: (The deeper in I get the more I see how true this is. Glad I am getting my mount and that's it.)

    "I apologize two things up front: the alt, and the spelling (actually, typing). If anyone disbelieves what I say here, just question and I'll be happy to provide some evidence of anything.

    Last tuesday, I hit rank 13. With the exception of the grand marshall staff, my Mage has every piece of pvp gear he is able to get.

    Which brings me to my point: World of Warcraft's pvp system promotes unhealthy play, is destructive to itself, and has ruined the game for many. It attracts a lot of people, only to destroy social lives and, in the end, make players unhappies than when they began.

    For those of you who dont know, the pvp system is basacally based around time spent online. Your standing affects your final rank, and in order to achieve a rank higher than 11 or so, you need a standing within the top 75 for a few continus weeks. Its standing <20 for rank 12, <15 for rank 13, and <8 for rank 14.

    I started off very naive to the pvp system. At first I only wanted to pvp gloves. So I started pvping. I got there after a few weeks. I liked pvp at the time, the challenge of WSG, the epic battle of AV. I also looked forward to my crackling staff that I would recieve after a few more AV games. I was able to pvp a few days a week. I not only went up in rank, but I skyrocketed. I almost double ranked one week, and then I finally got to rank 7. I was happy. I had gained a rank a week, and finally got my gloves. I was happy, I enjoyed myself.

    But then I took a look at the other armor the vendor had to offer. Wow...this gear isnt bad. At this time I had to make a decision. To go with PvE, or stay with PvP. At the time, my crappy guild had stalled out on Garr, and since I worked the midnight shift, I was unable to attend a good 60% or so of the raids. So I couldnt compete with the other mages who could go each week and collect DKP.

    So I looked at the pvp gear and though to myself: Hmm, this looks like my path. I can pvp when I want, and earn gear at my own pace.

    This is the trap that I belive most people fall into. There are only two routes to getting good end game gear: PvE raiding, and PvP. Some of us cannot raid. Either we're not in a raiding guild (and are unable to find one), or we work, or whatever. So pvp is the only other option. And that is why so many people fall into the pvp hell that I am about to describe.

    Ranks 7-9 were fairly smooth. I was gaining a rank per week, and getting new gear every tuesday. Every time I though 'thats enough, i'm done,' I would remind myself that new gear was only a tuesday away. So I kept going.

    But playing a few hours every evening wasnt enough anymore. I was barely gaining any rank per week, so I thought about it, and came to the conclusion that the only way I was going to actually get to rank 13 (my goal..how naive) was to find a good group of people to run with. People with epics, people who steamrolled pugs, people who played 12 hours a day.

    This was a problem, considering I didnt fit into any one of those three descriptions. But, I pestered the leaders of the pvp raids, and sometimes I got invites at 2-3-4 in the morning (my nights off) when they were running out of players. We steamrolled pugs, we ran rampant through the newly released AB, but, more imporantly to me, we were getting honor, so I was gaining rank.

    But, I was still unknown to the higher ups. I was sleeping less and less, waking up earlier to try to get in before the 'regulars' got on, so I would have a chance to get into the pvp raid. I would stay up later on my nights off, trying to get into the raid. I was often groggy at work due to the lack of sleep, but I just wrote it off as 'as soon as I get my rank, I can sleep for a week.'

    Rank 10-11 was nasty for me. I was at the point where I had to pvp every day to avoid dropping in standing, but I wasnt able to get into the groups. 'Hey, does anyone know this kid? no? Screw him then, pretend you're afk when he whispers you.' How do I know that happened? Because later on I would do the same thing.

    I would say it took me a good 6 weeks to go from rank 10 to 11. Without a group to run in, I often faced waiting a half hour to get thrown into a pick up group AB game that was 1940/0 right before it ended, only to get kicked out and have to wait another half hour. It wasnt fun anymore. I wasnt enjoying AB. I wasnt enjoing seeing the same people over and over. But more importantly, I was putting pvp ahead of my own health, with the reasoning 'oh, I'll get better once I get my rank.'

    I skipped doctors appointments due to the fact that I got into the good group, and didnt want to leave. I stayed up all day (its like staying up all night..remmeber I worked the nightshift) pvping, just to get more honor. But, it still took me 6 weeks to get to rank 11. And guess what, I already had my epic mount.

    At around rank 11, I was starting to get noticed by the higher ups. I was getting invites into the group regularly, and I was actually starting to have fun again - not pvping, but just joking around on vent. Even if I wasnt in the group, I was on vent talking to my new friends. Those friends are all gone now, they've all gotten their ranks and all but one of them have quit. I'll be honest, I miss them.

    Rank 11 to rank 12 was a pain, but since the first purples approached, i was excited again to see how much I had gone up. I could no longer play starcraft a few nights a week. I could no longer touch my xbox360. I had to pvp, or I would drop in rank. Tuesdays were my favorite days. Not because the honor updated, but because I could sleep. I wished the servers would go down for a day, perhaps a week, just so I could enjoy the rest. I was getting ranked (standing) in the top 20 every week, and I since I was playing every moment I had, there was no feasable way for me to increase my honor per week.

    And then I became a 'regular' to the pvp group. Often people would get kicked so I could join the pvp raid. I felt bad for them, but then I remembered what had happened to me at rank 9. yeah, I'm sorry, but I need the honor more than you do. I often led the raids in the morning, and although I tried to get everyone in, sometimes I had to tell people 'no, you cant join, its full.' And then when the regulars got on, we had to reform the raid. The 5-6 people that were left out..I had to explain to them what was happening. Did I like it? No, but I had no choice.

    Any of the steady pvpers are basacally living an unhealthy life. One of the kids I pvped with couldnt wake up with an alarm clock, so he rigged a cup of water to fall onto his face at 10:30 (5 hours of sleep) every morning. Another raid had started, we had to 'step it up' to beat them. Their leader wsa rank 13, and could have gotten rank 14 with standing one. Our raid leader slammed back the mountain dew, the pep pills, and stayed up for a god 50something hours straight pvping. He beat him, and their leader ended up with 59990 raiting points (60,000 is rank 14). Our leader nearly died, but hey, he got standing one, and thats all that matters, right?

    Most of our members blew off at least a few hours of sleep a night, and drank a case of mountain dew a day just to stay up and beat out the other raid. Why did we hate them so much? Well, they were of a certain race, I wont say what race, but they were farming honor and we had to beat them. Me? Hell, I was in their guild (the opposite raid), so I tried to stay out of it. I joined the guild to play with a friend (one who quit when I was rank 7), and I just never left. So I heard the flames (often not in English) aimed at our raid, the (insert white guy slur here)s! Being white, I really didnt care, but it did get on my nerves. I asked them to stop, they didnt, so after another week I reported them. I was told 'tough noogies' by the GM (expected, it IS their guild), but I remained in just because I had no other guild to join.

    And I finally hit rank 13. I went for a walk, I played some basketball, and I enjoyed the fact that I didnt have to be at my computer anymore. Will I miss it? I'll miss it the same way a prisoner misses prison when he gets out - yes, its good to be out, but I'll miss the regularity of it. Now I dont know what the hell to do. I spent an hour running around ironforge just because I had nothing to do. I have joined a new guild, a raiding one, and I will be doing pve with them.

    But, this post was written for 3 reasons:

    1) A call for help to blizzard. Please fix this. You're selling a product thats, well, worse than cigarettes. The only difference is that when you get your rank at WoW, you stop. You dont stop smoking untill you die. But during that time, you live a lot unhealther playing wow.

    2) To blow off steam. Bleh, there, I said it.

    3) To warn others: dont get involved with pvp. Even if it seems easy at first, dont do it. Its not worth it.

    So please blizzard, please, change the system so its not based on time played. I know its 'under review,' but if this system isnt changed within a month or so, I will just be canceling. I dont want to support a company thats promoting this.

    Goodnight, and good luck."
     
  15. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    I read that before somewhere. I need to put effort into making Rank 10 before I fall too far. Fell to Rank 7 this week, but just barely. That said, I haven't been on for more than 10 minutes since Monday, so I'm getting off to a bad start this week as well.

    Blizz needs to reduce the honor decay.
     
  16. Calendryll

    Calendryll MSC Commander and Donator

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    That would be oh so helpful.
     
  17. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    You can't blame Blizzard for your own unhealthy habbits. He made the decision to be unhealthy, so he can only be complaining about epics being inaccessible. That horse was dead long ago.

    PvE raiding for epics represents a similar time investment. PvP is not a shortcut.
     
  18. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    The game is dangerous because of the lure of the just one more x all i need is to spend x more hours.

    For someone like myself who doesn't have the time to dedicate that's really dangerous which is why I stopped. It was having negative effects on all other aspects of my life. Unfortunately there are other people that don't have that same level of self control and will ruin themselves just to get the next thing. However there are people that can totally manage their time effectively and not fall into the trap (I wasn't one of them).

    I can't see blizzard removing the time dependance though, that's the basis of the entire game. MMORPGs are basically built on the model that more time = better character, it's the only thing that differentiates people. If it was based on actual skill then lots of people wouldn't play because if you suck you can't do anything about it, while if the game is based on how much you play you can always spend more time. Plus the entire business model is based on long term subscribers, if you remove the time thing then people will hit max in a short amount of time and get tired of it.
    I think it's fair to make the argument that blizzard is marketing the game towards casual players and then they get sucked into the high end grind. At that point people either choose to drop it or choose to dedicate. After a certain point you either go hardcore or go home, there's really no room for casual players.
     
  19. MisterHalleck

    MisterHalleck Peasant

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    Time Played != time subscribed. Giving players an incentive to log out is a great idea - reduced player fatigue and server load.

    If you're in a raid guild that knows its shit, you can clear MC in four hours and BWL in three, which is 30-40 epics in basically no time at all. PvP seems to be the antithesis of this.

    How about some kind of boosted Rest system for PvP? what do you guys think could fix it? Gold from kills in PvP? Quests that increase rank once you get a certain amount of honor? Better gear at lower ranks?

    How About World Drops That Compare To Raid/PvP gear? Ever think about making it available on the AH, Blizzard?

    True dat.
     
  20. Calendryll

    Calendryll MSC Commander and Donator

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    I do know that when you have to spend 10+ hours on a game each day something is flawed. It is wrong when you cannot lead a normal life and reach goals in a freaking game. Like I said, I'm trying to reach rank 11 for my mount and it'll stop there, i'm not interested in killing myself for the color purple.

    Jake it's easy to say that it's all his fault which was my first initial reaction. However it's very easy to get caught up in something and then suddenly your to far along to quit (or feel like you can't).

    Halleck here is most people's answer to this problem for pvp:
    You get 1 or 2 other people to play your account at times you cant. It's amazing how much less of a time sink it is when multiple people are doing it.
     

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