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Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by cowofwar, Jul 29, 2002.

  1. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    False Teachers

    Matthew 24:24 “…false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive…”

    Galatians 1:6-8 “…turning to a different gospel-which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached you, let him be eternally condemned!”

    2 Corinthians 11:13-15 ”For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness.”

    2 Thessalonians 2:9-10 “The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.”

    2 Peter 2:1-3 “But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies…Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of the truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them.”

    1 John 4:1 “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.”

    Jude 4 “For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you…”

    Mary’s Importance Diminished

    Matthew 12:47-48 “…Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you. He replied to him, ‘Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?’ Pointing to his disciples, he said, ‘Here are my mother and my brothers…’”

    Luke 11:27-28 “…a woman in the crowd called out, ‘Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.’ He replied, ‘Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.’”

    John 2:3-4 “…Jesus’ mother said to him, ‘They have no more wine.’ ‘Dear woman, why do you involve me?’ Jesus replied…”

    Mary’s Virginity Not Perpetual

    Matthew 1:25 “But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son…”

    Matthew 13:54-55 “…Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? Aren’t all his sisters with us?…”

    Luke 2:7 “and she gave birth to her firstborn…”

    Galatians 1:19 “I saw none of the other apostles-only James, the Lord’s brother.”

    Apostles Married

    Matthew 8:14 “When Jesus came into Peter’s house, he saw Peter’s mother-in-law lying in bed with a fever.”

    Traditions Not To Be Held

    1 Corinthians 8:8 “But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.”

    Galatians 4:9-11 “…how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved to them all over again? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.”

    Colossians 2:16-18, 23 “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to religious festival…These are shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize…Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value…”

    1 Timothy 4:1-4 “The spirit says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,”

    Saints and Figures

    Job 5:1, 8 “…To which of the holy ones will you turn? But if it were I, I would appeal to God;”

    Job 15:15 “…God places no trust in his holy ones,”

    Isaiah 46:6-7 “…they bow down and worship it. They lift it to their shoulders and carry it; they set it up in its place, and there it stands. From that spot it cannot move. Though one cries out to it, it does not answer; it cannot save him from his troubles.”

    Romans 1:22-23 “Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man…”

    Children Without Sin

    Matthew 19:14 “Jesus said, ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”
     
  2. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    are those from that, uhhh, bible thing?
     
  3. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    BTW this is RE: catholicism
     
  4. Strader

    Strader Peasant

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    My thoughts exactly Cow.
     
  5. mrdoomsday

    mrdoomsday Peasant

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    i hope u used C&P for that
     
  6. kraahl

    kraahl Peasant

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    Yes that book thingy. I´ve heard about it, some people say it´s holy. :laugh:

    A few years ago a "jehova"-guy (is it called jehova in english) knocked at my door.
    He told me god was going to take away death. Isn´t that a bit strange. You´ll never come to heaven if you don´t die.
    Eternity is a long time, I don´t think it´d like to live that long.
     
  7. SpocKirk

    SpocKirk Forum Moderator and Donator

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    Jehova's Witness
     
  8. Strader

    Strader Peasant

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    It's somewhat annoying when they come to the door but I like to talk to them about various issues, take their booklet and then throw it out after saying goodbye. Same thing every time. This time it was about the harmful effects that gambling can have. I don't agree with their views, (They changed their Bible), but I can certainly try to be polite and all.
     
  9. Wulf

    Wulf MSC Knight and Donator

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    I wouldn't mind living forever if they just gave me a space-ship and told me "Okay, go find something." Well, that is as long as a few other people did too :p
     
  10. Wulf

    Wulf MSC Knight and Donator

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    'Course I don't believe in Theology... but for the people that do... well more power to you... you sick sick bastards :p
     
  11. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    ...You don't believe in the study of religious works?
     
  12. Kalgareth

    Kalgareth Peasant

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    LOL...

    Well done Cow = )
     
  13. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    just answer the door naked, that scares away the door-to-door religion peeps. :hump:
     
  14. Strader

    Strader Peasant

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    Just make sure it's not your mother at the door first... ;)
     
  15. mrdoomsday

    mrdoomsday Peasant

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    first hand experience?
     
  16. Strader

    Strader Peasant

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    No but years ago I flashed the entire neighborhood down the hill from our old house. We don't live there anymore. :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2002
  17. Wulf

    Wulf MSC Knight and Donator

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    yes... that and what I ment to say even :p
     
  18. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    I'll do it all tomorrow, I've been camping since last Sunday and I'm exhausted, I just glanced over it though and it's interesting. Erroneous... but interesting. A lot of it's taken out of context. Did you raid an apologetics website?
     
  19. cowofwar

    cowofwar Peasant

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    They're not mine. I just wanted to get your take on them. It's like questioning the jehova's witnesses.
     
  20. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

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    I'm not going to do the False Teachers section because... as far as I can tell it's not an attack on Catholic belief, it's kind of pointless actually.

    First one is actually Matthew 12:47-49. It's taken out of context, read Matthew 12:50.

    Second one isn't diminishing Mary at all. It's a chicken and the egg statement. Mary couldn't give birth to Jesus without being free from sin, she is therefore blessed because of her commitment to God, not just because of the act of giving birth.

    The last one is a bit interesting. However if you recall the rest of the Wedding at Cana, Jesus performed a miracle even though he had not yet begun his ministry. He obeys his mother.

    When Catholics call Mary the "Blessed Virgin," they mean she remained a virgin throughout her life. When Protestants refer to Mary as "virgin," they mean she was a virgin only until Jesus’ birth. They believe that she and Joseph later had children whom Scripture refers to as "the brethren of the Lord." The disagreement arises over biblical verses that use the terms "brethren," "brother," and "sister."

    There are about ten instances in the New Testament where "brothers" and "sisters" of the Lord are mentioned (Matt. 12:46; Matt. 13:55; Mark 3:31–34; Mark 6:3; Luke 8:19–20; John 2:12, 7:3, 5, 10; Acts 1:14; 1 Cor. 9:5).

    When trying to understand these verses, note that the term "brother" (Greek: adelphos) has a wide meaning in the Bible. It is not restricted to the literal meaning of a full brother or half-brother. The same goes for "sister" (adelphe) and the plural form "brothers" (adelphoi). The Old Testament shows that "brother" had a wide semantic range of meaning and could refer to any male relative from whom you are not descended (male relatives from whom you are descended are known as "fathers") and who are not descended from you (your male descendants, regardless of the number of generations removed, are your "sons"), as well as kinsmen such as cousins, those who are members of the family by marriage or by law rather than by blood, and even friends or mere political allies (2 Sam. 1:26; Amos 1:9).

    Lot, for example, is called Abraham’s "brother" (Gen. 14:14), even though, being the son of Haran, Abraham’s brother (Gen. 11:26–28), he was actually Abraham’s nephew. Similarly, Jacob is called the "brother" of his uncle Laban (Gen. 29:15). Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar had no sons, only daughters, who married their "brethren," the sons of Kish. These "brethren" were really their cousins (1 Chr. 23:21–22).

    The terms "brothers," "brother," and "sister" did not refer only to close relatives. Sometimes they meant kinsmen (Deut. 23:7; Neh. 5:7; Jer. 34:9), as in the reference to the forty-two "brethren" of King Azariah (2 Kgs. 10:13–14).

    What's the point in this one? Peter had a wife and did not remain a virgin, so? No beef with Catholicism there...

    Said the Second Vatican Council in 1965: ‘It is not from sacred Scripture alone that the Church draws her certainty about everything which has been revealed. Therefore both sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same sense of devotion and reverence.’"

    The confusion here is equating mere traditions—customs or ways of doing things—with Tradition, the oral teaching given by Jesus to the apostles and passed through their successors, the bishops. Vatican II, in this passage, was talking about "upper-case" Tradition, not "lower-case" tradition. The writer was either grossly ignorant of the meaning of Catholic terms, or he tried to pull a fast one here, knowing that the word "Tradition"—also called "sacred Tradition"—implies something other than mere "tradition"—or "human tradition."

    The Job quote says it pretty well. We do not pray to Saints, but ask them to intercess for us. I point you to Revelation 5:8 where it refers to the Saints bearing our prayers to God in the form of incense filled bowls (a metaphor, no doubt, but nonetheless the Saints do intercess).

    Indeed. Children under the age of 7 are said to have not reached the age of reason. Under this, they don't fully comprehend the consequences of their sin, and therefore according to the definition of sin they have not sinned.

    The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: "Those who die for the faith, those who are catechumens, and all those who, without knowing of the Church but acting under the inspiration of grace, seek God sincerely and strive to fulfill his will, are saved even if they have not been baptized" (CCC 1281; the salvation of unbaptized infants is also possible under this system; cf. CCC 1260–1, 1283).
     

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