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Discussion in 'MSC Clan' started by Lurk, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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  2. OsIriS

    OsIriS Peasant

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    Going to break out my DIII again now...

    I never understood the concept of making Death the bad guy. Death is neutral.
     
  3. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    I still don't own D3. It's garbage.
     
  4. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    I just got an invite to the RoS beta. I went years with no Blizzard beta invites and now I've gotten two in the past year, Hearthstone and D3X. Go figure.

    Anyway, I haven't played D3 in months. It was okay, but given the lofty bar set by its predecessors, you'd have to call it a disappointment as it didn't reach anywhere near those heights. It certainly didn't hold my interest the way D1 and D2 did.

    I know they've made a lot of changes for this expansion. Whether the game is better remains to be seen, but since the beta is free, might as well give it another shot. I will install it tonight and see how it goes.
     
  5. Autolycus

    Autolycus Forum Moderator

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    I've been playing beta a while, it's actually a Diablo game now.
     
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  6. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    damn, now i'm gonna have to try it
     
  7. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    Auto is right, it is much improved.

    Adventure mode is awesome, probably the most welcome change. Once you finish Campaign mode on any character you never have to do it again if you don't want to.

    The new Paragon system is nice. A little of the old flavor of customizing stats.

    The new Legendary items are actually worth getting.

    All mobs and drops now level as you do. If you want to level to max in Act 1, you can do so.

    There are now five difficulty levels that you unlock by leveling any toon (Normal, Hard, Expert, Master, and Torment). Torment has a further six levels of difficulty. Torment VI is unbelievably crazy. Once unlocked, you can select the difficulty you want.

    The Crusader is fun.

    I'm still not crazy on everything (like spells) being based on weapon DPS, but I didn't really expect that to change since it's core to the game.

    Overall, it's a lot more fun.
     
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  8. Autolycus

    Autolycus Forum Moderator

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    Adventure mode may as well be called "Diablo 2 Mode" because that's basically what it is. You start a game, jump from waypoint to waypoint killing elites and then you get a bonus dungeon at the end with a load of more elites in it, plus currency for the gambling NPC.
     
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  9. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    Indeed. I think the bounties and Nephalem Rifts are better than D2 boss runs, and you can still do boss farming on top of it if you are so inclined.

    While I still wouldn't say the game is better than D2 overall (and again, that's a hard standard to reach), Adventure Mode is well done.

    Plus, the Crusader has Blessed Hammer, lol.
     
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  10. SpocKirk

    SpocKirk Forum Moderator and Donator

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    AH closing brought me back, but it didn't last because I've played the stupid story too many times. Now I actually want to play D3 again.
     
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  11. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    Latest beta patch is cooling my enthusiasm greatly. Drop rates for legendaries are nerfed to the ground, it seems that Blizzard wants us to gamble for them instead. Hey, that's exciting.

    Crafted legendaries are almost never better than a rare for the same slot.

    Nephalem Rifts (the random dungeons) are pointless now. Lots of monsters but no worthwhile drops, and no chance to get legendaries from the goodie bag at the end.

    Killing speed has dropped a lot, even on Expert difficulty. I'm okay with that if the difficulty was easier than intended, but Masters and Torment are pointless now. Yeah, I can play them but it takes so long to kill even basic mobs that it's not worth it for the paltry drop rate. And elite packs are unbearable above Expert. Basically you're just running a lot and pinging mobs as you can while hoping for a health globe to drop.

    Most of this stuff seems to amount to tweaking a few variables as opposed to a complete overhaul, so I'm not giving up, but they have a lot of work to do before the March ship date. I was going to pre-order the CE, I'm holding off.
     
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  12. Autolycus

    Autolycus Forum Moderator

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    Legendary drops weren't technically nerfed, it's just that early beta drop rates were set to "loot piñata" to facilitate bugfixing/balancing of the unique affixes. I think they probably should've reduced this to something closer to its intended value prior to beginning the wider closed beta.

    The difficulty curve was adjusted, but it seems smoother going from normal -> torment 3. I personally thought expert/master was easy up until act 5 where there was a pretty sharp increase and I think this was meant to even it out. I haven't tried anything beyond T3 except for the one time I tried to kill a zombie outside tristram for 20 minutes on T7. Is there a certain build or area that you could farm with/farm in before that you can't now on Master/T1?

    I seem to kill things faster in torment than I did previously, but I take a lot more damage than I used to so I had to shuffle some gear for resists/regen to stay in the game. Plus, I was using a tragically overpowered skill combo that they finally fixed, so some adjustment was required there too.

    Rifts and rift guardians are almost certainly changing. I've seen a lot of feedback from both external and internal sources regarding the feeling that they're not rewarding enough for the effort. I'd recommend posting in the feedback forum if you haven't, they're keeping a close eye on it for useful criticisms.

    One issue I have yet to see addressed, is that currently people form 4 player parties and do an adventure game on normal difficulty. This allows them to clear all of the bounties in 30-40 minutes, and all players in the game get the bounty rewards which results in tons of gambling currency/bags in a very short amount of time.
     
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  13. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    If the current legendary drop rate is intended they need to rethink it. I agree they were probably too high to go into release but gambling should be a supplement, not the main way to acquire loot.

    Four people rampaging through normal shouldn't be the most efficient farming method, either, and it highlights another issue. Smart loot means you're unlikely to find something with stats for another class, so the optimum group for farming is four players who have the same main stat. This also impacts twinking and the choice of follower. You're almost forced to pick the follower with the same main stat as your class.

    Smart loot is well-intentioned but maybe needs to be adjusted. Of course it's an offshoot of the issue that has been in the game since the beginning, which is that the primary stats aren't restricted to certain item types. Some people like that, but to me it still feels wrong to see a 2-handed axe with intellect, or a wand with strength.
     
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  14. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    So I tweaked my build and gear a little (LOVE the Enchantress) and Expert is back to being lawn mower mode, and even Master is still fairly easy unless I get a particularly nasty set of affixes on an Elite pack. If a pack gets a bunch of CC affixes it can leave you without control of your toon for 10+ seconds at a time. I can't fathom trying that in hardcore mode.

    I played for a few hours yesterday and didn't get single decent drop. RNG is RNG, but still it's hard to justify the slower killing times in Master and above when the mobs don't drop the loot. Hopefully this will be tweaked, there needs to be a greater incentive to increase difficulty, beyond some players are just sadistic. I like the idea of Torment only legendaries, but not if the drop rate is too low to matter.

    With that said, I played for a few hours yesterday, which isn't something I'd currently do with D3 vanilla. I like the bounty system, I just don't want it to be the only thing worth doing. I REALLY hope they buff the Rifts, because that was one of the coolest things they added. The Rift boss needs to drop better loot, and there needs to be a reason to finish the dungeon after the boss is dead. Rifts are huge but most of the time you never get off the first level.
     
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  15. OsIriS

    OsIriS Peasant

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    I haven't played anything in months. I hope to have at least a little window of opportunity soon.
     
  16. Autolycus

    Autolycus Forum Moderator

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    I think reducing the legendary drop rate at the same time as shrinking the number of total item drops per elite kill resulted in a bigger dip than they were intending. There are mountains of feedback about this though so there's little chance that it wont be addressed one way or another.

    The normal mode zerging should calm down eventually. It really only takes 2-3 weeks of farming to get yourself maxed out with optimal rares, at which point it's time to visit torment for your upgrades. Rerolling makes it a lot easier to get a nice rare, but rerolling legendaries requires you to have a crappy legendary to junk per attempt so that's more of a long term character optimization goal.

    I hadn't thought about smart loot gimping your follower, that's an interesting point. I guess gambling could help there as well but most people aren't going to like the idea of spending a chance at that shiny legendary to make their dingus NPC hit harder/die less. Most of my torment farming has actually been with a crusader + templar follower so I have no idea if you find follower appropriate loot or not.

    I have a lot of faith in the post-Wilson team, especially with their willingness to pull the plug on the cancerous auction house. After ripping that out and adding adventure mode to bring back the old diablo feel, it's really just a matter of tweaking the numbers at this point.
     
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  17. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    Based on some blue posts I saw yesterday I'd guess you're right. They were getting a lot of feedback that the early drop rates were too high, so they actually came out and admitted that they wanted to find the reverse, that is the point where testers felt the drop rates were too low. They said that current drop rates are somewhere between 50% and 100% of intended, so there will likely be a buff if not a huge one.

    They came out and said "split farming" isn't in the spirit of co-op play, so expect something to be done about that. If I were a betting man I'd expect them to make it so you don't get credit for a bounty if you aren't there.

    In vanilla my Wizard was using the Scoundrel so I just kept him for leveling to 70 in beta. At some point I noticed that I wasn't getting any Agility gear he could use, even when I tried to gamble for it. Every gambling item spawned with Intellect. So, I switched to the Enchantress. She can actually kill some white mobs on her own with the abundance of Int gear I find. It's not a game breaking thing, I guess, but if I wanted the Templar for heals it would be hard because I don't get any Strength gear. Would be nice if there was a better chance to get "off-class" gear for followers or alts.

    Agree 100%. The AH announcement was a HUGE positive step. There are some core game mechanics that I still wish we could change, but the game is more engaging now and that makes up for a lot.
     
  18. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    So for me anyway the latest hotfix put it back to "loot piñata." I did 4 Rifts in Master this weekend and got 3 legendaries and a legendary crafting pattern, and each Rift Guardian dropped a Forgotten Soul. One of the legendaries was a crappy staff, but the other two (a belt and a Wizard offhand) were put to immediate use. The offhand had a unique attribute that causes Ray of Frost to pierce, so it's like a cold version of Disintegrate, and I re-rolled the belt and got 15% bonus damage on Ray of Frost.

    After that I decided to go all cold damage, the wand I'm running has 25% bonus to Spectral Blade, so I took the cold damage rune for that, alongside Ray of Frost runed to reduce enemy cold resistance, and Arcane Orb runed to Frozen Orb.

    Frozen Orb is freaking insane, back and better than ever from its D2 version. Obliterates normal mobs in Master and does pretty well against the elites too. I'm thinking it's time to step up to Torment I and see how it goes. I'm going to feel sad when my beta Wizard goes bye bye and I have to start over again at 60.

    Anyway, now it feels (to me) like the drop rates might be too high again, but I could just be a small sample with good RNG yesterday.
     
  19. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    Oh and they addressed one of my other concerns too. The Rift levels are smaller. Before they were absolutely huge, like I almost never saw the exit to level 1. Also, the mob density appears to have been adjusted so that you hit 100% on the meter to spawn the Guardian right around the end of the 5th (bottom) level of the Rift.

    Both good changes, it no longer feels like you're leaving most of the Rift unfinished.
     
  20. SpocKirk

    SpocKirk Forum Moderator and Donator

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    Update (2.0.1) improved a lot of stuff. I played six hours and got 3 legendaries for my class and went up 12 Paragon levels on Torment I. Got my resists up to a good level and now I'm working on improving my DPS.

    Now that I'm back in, I will be purchasing the expansion.
     

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