Portal   Forum   Members   Market   Gallery   Events

cookie cutter sorc?

Discussion in 'MSC Clan' started by Jakeman, Aug 26, 2001.

  1. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2000
    Messages:
    25,758
    Likes Received:
    27
    Market Rating:
    16
    looking for some advice on my new sorc. i just started her over because i wasted a couple skill points. my bro says i should only go into two elements. what elements should i use and what skills for those elements?
     
  2. charlybrown

    charlybrown Peasant

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2001
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    6
    Market Rating:
    0
    Apparently, 3 uncompleted tree is a way to build a sor. But it's a challenge.

    Best way is to go ice and something else. Because cold doesn't require too many point into mastery but any other tree will require you to max one skill and max the mastery to get full damage.

    Lightning have 3 choices, nova, charged bolts or, thunderstorm.

    Fire have 3 choices as well, hydra, meteor and firewall.

    If you go cold, I recommend frozen orb, as blizzard without stackability will miss all the time.
     
  3. Autolycus

    Autolycus Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    3,410
    Likes Received:
    20
    Market Rating:
    0
    i say hydra for fire, i havent played a sorc in a while but i know my fire skills :p
     
  4. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2000
    Messages:
    25,758
    Likes Received:
    27
    Market Rating:
    16
    what about energy vs vitality. remember, this is hard core. my bro was telling me something about balancing my energy with my energy shield?
     
  5. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2001
    Messages:
    9,325
    Likes Received:
    34
    Market Rating:
    0
    Go firewall + nova for offense, both masteries, energy shield, static and teleport, and the only thing you need on the cold tree is one point in cold nova, that's it. The chilling helps. What energy shield does, is it takes a percentage of your damage and deals it to your mana, instead of your health, that's what your brother meant on balancing. Enough energy to get your mana, with gear, to 800 is enough. As far as strength goes, 60 can be enough, but you'd need 75 to use a 3D tower. Everything else goes in vitality, obviously. Now that telekenesis has been nerfed I wouldn't even touch it. One point in teleport is all that's necessary. A point in static can help for bosses, again you don't need any more points because it's not very good against groups of monsters any more (it's not a guaranteed hit every time on every monster). Personally I'd suggest 5-10 points in energy shield, max firewall and nova, one point in cold nova and another point in static, and 10 points in fire and lightning masteries seems enough to me (on my 80 softcore sorc). Thunderstorm can deal a lot of damage, but since it only affects a single monster, and has lots of prerequisites, it's kind of a novelty (ultimate duelling skill though, instant kills). Since it only strikes at certain intervals it can be rendered unnecessary through fast-casting nova.

    --Haite

    [edit: these numbers are all not counting +skills items, my softcore sorc actually has around level 15 masteries and level 25 attacks because of items]
     
  6. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2000
    Messages:
    25,758
    Likes Received:
    27
    Market Rating:
    16
    i think i'll go cold (orb) and fire (wall)
     
  7. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2001
    Messages:
    9,325
    Likes Received:
    34
    Market Rating:
    0
    I didn't mention orb because it's more of a PK skill, it's damage doesn't cut it at higher levels. At level 20 it's base damage is 262-267, with maxed cold mastery (-85% cold resist) on a creature that normally has 0% cold resist, that only does 484.7-493.95 damage. Compare this to level 20 nova which does 150-169 base, with +278% from level 20 lightning mastery, overall 417-469.82, a slightly lower average, but it can be chain cast, whereas orb has a timer. My point is that firewall can only damage in a line, you need something more flexible, you lay down some firewalls but then you have to actually use a skill to kill the enemies that aren't engulfed by the flames. Orb could do this, if it could still be chain cast. Right now the only cold skills that can consistantly deal damage are either ice blast or glacial spike. You can cast three novas in the space it takes for you to cast one orb and then recover from casting delay.

    --Haite
     
  8. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2001
    Messages:
    9,325
    Likes Received:
    34
    Market Rating:
    0
    Of course I'm a fanatic =D.

    --Haite
     
  9. BaleFire

    BaleFire MSC Footman

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    948
    Likes Received:
    4
    Market Rating:
    0
    use CB its cool
    max CB, Max mastery. 22 bolts (more with plus skills) each one does 50 some dmg, mulitiple bolts can hit one guy, seems to cast faster than other spells and all for the minimal cost of 12.5 mana. use whatever for secondary skill, blizzard firewall hydra etc.
     
  10. BaleFire

    BaleFire MSC Footman

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2000
    Messages:
    948
    Likes Received:
    4
    Market Rating:
    0
    now that I look at it nova is better because it does its full dmg to each guy it hits and CB splits up dmg between guys (since each bolt does a bit of the total dmg) so nova is better but charged bolt still pretty cool.

    <edit> w00t post 400<edit>
     
  11. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2001
    Messages:
    9,325
    Likes Received:
    34
    Market Rating:
    0
    CB pwns, and it's fun to watch :).

    --Haite
     
  12. Spike

    Spike Banned

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2001
    Messages:
    430
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    I still like Firewall/Frozen Orb/some Static.

    Firewall does great damage for those that are still. Frozen Orb just has such a nice spray for those moving targets and slows em down, and its cast delay is a short 1.0 sec. It does more damage and cost less mana that D2 1.0.6. I like to put a couple on Static because I hate to have to get too close to bosses to static them.
     
  13. charlybrown

    charlybrown Peasant

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2001
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    6
    Market Rating:
    0
    Let me clear up the things heh :o

    Balancing the nergy shield is so called, effective HP. The concept behind this idea is to have enough mana that if you get into a close call or sudden lag, your mana will reach 0 at the same time as your life reaches 0, so this way it max out the effectiveness of the energy shield. This concept was proposed by Xianhua who wrote a complete sorceress guide for hardcore based on statistics of Diablo 2 classic. You can read the whole concept of effective hp via lurkerlounge, the concept extend to 1/8 of the shole guide. But now we know that hp is no more of a serious concern because of the new mercenaries, but still that's the best hp/mana concept I've read.

    In LoD, there is no such thing as high tweakers (fastest cast sor) because of the casting delay, but that delay concept is very important. For the druid, armageddon must be on at all time, but other spells should be able to fit into the 4 seconds after the 6 seconds delay. eg. armageddon, constant artic blast, volcano, constant artic blast, repeat. With this combo, your druid stay in the casting mode at all time. For the sor, since her casting delays are really short, you can maybe ast up to only 2 spells before your main spell becomes available. The longest casting delay is hydra, so basically if you use hydra, you can cast about 3 times a fast spell during the delay. So it is very important to use 1 spell that has a delay and one that does not. The fact that you will have to encounter immunities in hell, you want to have 2 different types of elemental. So it is best to have a slow spell in one elemental and a fast spell in another elemental.

    A correction to haite's statement. Cold mastery does not work with enemies that does not have cold resistances. The reduction is based on enemies resistances not direct subtraction. Say if an enemy have 50% cold resistance, and cold mastery does 50% reduction, then enemy will have 25%. So basically cold spells don't can't do more damage than the damage stated on the skill.

    The choice of a fast spell important. The following are choices to be considered: Charged bolts, Nova, Glacial spikes, Fireball, Static Field. Lightning and chain lightning don't have delays but they delay by themselves.

    Now Charged bolts, I know that people like that fancy spell, I know it does nice damage, and I know it's hardly effective in hardcore for the only reason that you have to sacrifice all your equipements into + lightning skills or sor skills. At the cost of 17 mana per cast, it can run your mana pool dry quickly if you don't have enough warmth and max mana.

    Nova, effective but dangerous, you have to step beside the enemies. Also the huge mana cost makes your energy shield inneffective. Jaha told me that he runs out of mana with 2k mana and 15 warmth using only lvl 24 nova. That's using only nova and no other spells.

    Glacial spikes. This skill only lacks of damage, but it's fast casting speed compensate for it. mana cost only 20 at lvl 20. Also, the radius has been nerfed, yes nerfed down to 2.6 which almost don't freeze anything else around the target.

    Fireball. A good punch of 200 damage at lvl 20 at the cost of only 14 mana. The down side is the radius of 2 yards.

    Static field: You might want to pump this skill to about lvl 10 for it to affect the whole screen on the small resolution. It is still quite useful despite the restriction in nm and hell, but still you can get an enemy down to half in hell with just 3-4 casts.

    So afterall what combination should you choose, seems that only nova and pull off enough damage. Hey but wait, if you combo with a more damageful slow skill than you can opt for a low damage fast skill...

    I recommend the following:

    meteor + nova, meteor does about 3k dmg, with only 26 mana cost which saves up to cast 1-2 novas between each meteors. Becareful with this build is that you will not have too much skill points left for warmth static and Eshield, thought eshield would be crucial.

    Firewall + Glacial spikes, Firewall does the damage, and glacial will save mana for it cause it cost only 20 for each glacial spikes, and it will help you do more dmg with fw since you keep enemies in the fire.

    Orb + static + Thunderstorm or Charged bolts. The fact that you only need one point int cold mastery (boost with items) you can save up 20 points to invest into static field. Thunderstorm is always on.

    Hydra + glacial spikes, pretty much same as firewall + spikes
     
  14. mud

    mud Peasant

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2000
    Messages:
    1,675
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    If you do do firewall just wathc the damge rise. when maxed out wall with mastery you will do about 6k fire damage a sec. my sorc only does about 2.5k a sec
     
  15. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2000
    Messages:
    2,586
    Likes Received:
    47
    Market Rating:
    0
    My CB/Orb sorcy rocks the house. I doubt CB would be the best choice for HC, cause you have to play like a melee character and get right in their face for CB to be most effective. CB doesn't kill as fast in Hell as I would like, but I can still solo effectively even in 8-player, and it's not as boring as Fire Wall.

    I too have been thinking that a Spike/FW sorcy might be worth a shot. Max Spike, FW, and FM. Why Spike and not Orb? Because Spike freezes, while Orb only slows, plus Spike has no delay. Spike 'em to freeze, then FW, and spam Spike to hold them in place if you have to. We don't care about cold damage, we pump GS only to increase our freezing duration, which if you will recall is cut to 1/4 in hell diff.

    Disadvantages I'd see: You can't freeze cold immunes, so you are going to have to find someone or something to tank for you against them. A good merc would come in handy here. And GS isn't going to be a secondary damage skill for fire immunes like Orb would be, plus this build could get mana hungry with constant Spikes. You may have to beef up a lightning skill like Nova for situations like that, or pull a Sir Robin and bugger off.

    Again, this may not be a good HC choice, but it would be fun to try, and you'd have to develop some skill with a GS/FW combo. At the very least, you may be able to hold your own in places besides the Bloody Foothills. As has been said before, the dirty little secret of über FW sorcs is that they can't survive without the NPC tanks in the Bloody Foothills, because monsters elsewhere don't stand still long enough to burn. I'd bet the best nerf they could ever do to FW is not a damage reduction, it'd be to take away the NPC barbs. They were a well intentioned idea, adding to the atmosphere of the game, but they have allowed a loophole for power levelling.

    I digress, however. It doesn't seem that GS/FW is the most popular build out there, but I always like to think outside the box. I was right there on the cutting edge with my CB sorc, maybe GS/FW will become the über build of the future. :D (Not likely.)
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2001
  16. Haite

    Haite Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2001
    Messages:
    9,325
    Likes Received:
    34
    Market Rating:
    0
    I'm just waiting patiently for Necros to become a playable class again...

    --Haite
     
  17. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2000
    Messages:
    2,586
    Likes Received:
    47
    Market Rating:
    0
    You and me both. We will be waiting for a while I think.
     
  18. Onisama

    Onisama Peasant

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2000
    Messages:
    1,740
    Likes Received:
    0
    Market Rating:
    0
    cold nova+blaze=secret uberbuild no one knows about. :D
     
  19. Autolycus

    Autolycus Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2000
    Messages:
    3,410
    Likes Received:
    20
    Market Rating:
    0
    i see a lot of orb/hydra tstorm/firewall and cb/hydra sorcs in act 5 hell, they seem to kill things
     
  20. MisterHalleck

    MisterHalleck Peasant

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2000
    Messages:
    2,746
    Likes Received:
    15
    Market Rating:
    0
    Nova/Fwall/Orb sorcs seem to be good. points into every skill tree, good damage, etc, etc.
     

Hitometer: 53,810,919 since 1995