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blacks are racist

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by Jakeman, Jan 18, 2009.

  1. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    I am reading these recent CNN opinion research polls. One that caught my eye asked blacks and whites if Obama's election is a personal dream come true. 89% of blacks said yes compared to only 11% of whites. Blacks are racist.

    Granted, there is a bit of wiggle room in this statement, but the correlation to race is extremely pronounced. It's ironic that the victims of racism are themselves racist, but I guess it's not unexpected. Victims often respond in kind which is unfortunate.
     
  2. harleyb

    harleyb Peasant

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    Can you explain your reasoning here? I don't follow.
     
  3. OsIriS

    OsIriS Peasant

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    I think Jake is kind of making a leap from african-americans saying that having a black president is a personal dream come true to I voted for Barack Obama because he's black and therefore we can have a black president.

    It's a bit of a stretch, but that doesn't mean you are necessarily wrong. just be careful of generalizing and pigeon-holing whole groups of people, it's never the correct course.

    Also, as one who is married to a minority (non-African-American), this dream is pretty much shared by all minorities.

    My hope is that we got this whole historic thing out of the way (fat chance) and that we can begin to start looking at candidates without labels (this one is black, this one is catholic, this one is a woman, this one is gay) and start looking at candidates on their platforms and ability to govern. Small dream of mine.
     
  4. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    The numbers make a strong argument that blacks favor Obama because he is black. If true then that is racist because it is an opinion based on race.

    Osiris got it right. But I wouldn't call it a stretch. It seems pretty clear cut to me. Granted, this isn't a comprehensive scientific study. We haven't eliminated all of the controlling variables with respect to opinions about Obama. But an 80% split along racial lines is pretty convincing to me.
     
  5. SpocKirk

    SpocKirk Forum Moderator and Donator

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  6. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    To say that it's personal dream come true is different from saying that they support him solely because he's black. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton were presidential candidates in past elections who did not receive nearly the level of support from blacks that Obama has enjoyed.

    Over 90% of blacks supported Bill Clinton and he is about as white as they come.

    A more accurate conclusion would be that blacks are happy that there is finally a viable candidate who is of their race, and that perhaps we are finally reaching the point in this country where race doesn't matter. Breaking the so-called color barrier in the Oval Office is a big deal for this country.
     
  7. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    Is that conclusion any less racist?
     
  8. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    It's the difference between racial pride (positive) and racism (negative).
     
  9. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    I'm not sure that justification works because the inverse is generally considered to be racist, and inverses are supposed to be logically equivalent. If black pride is a positive then white pride should also be a positive but it's not. So once again you have a racial divide.
     
  10. OsIriS

    OsIriS Peasant

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    I'm willing to give Barack Obama an open-minded chance. He's the new president and for whatever justification he was elected, it doesn't matter at this point. I personally thought we needed an experienced pragmatist, not another inexperienced idealist in the White House, but whatever. Hopefully he can help turn around the economy around and end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan without leaving a power vacuum. If he can accomplish those two goals, I'll consider him a success.

    And for minorities being insular, you just have to accept it. The brain is a primative organ and sometimes primal instincts trump reason.

    And Lurk, we haven't moved passed race in this country. In fact, I'd say we are more racially divided now than we were in the 80's. It's sad that people want to hold on to these outdated ideas of racial identity, but what can you do?
     
  11. smack

    smack Peasant and Donator

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    I don't like to think of this in terms of positive and negative. It seems like a teeter-totter. The more you have of one the less you have of the other generally (but not always!).

    There was this old Seinfeld episode where Jerry wanted an electrician and asked Kramer if he knew anyone. Paraphrase:
    This joke is about how people have trouble detaching personal feelings from their evaluation of professional qualification. It was unexpected that Kramar would praise the professional skills of someone he hated.

    I generally prefer if people are more dispassionate when evaluating the skillsets of others. More Kramer-like, if you will. :)
     
  12. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    I was watching MSNBC's coverage of the inauguration and one of their news casters made a good observation. He observed that Obama doesn't carry with him all of the historical baggage that most black Americans do because he is not descended from slaves. Obama lacks those personal demons which taint the minds of so many black Americans, and that may help to explain why Obama has succeeded where other blacks have failed.

    Here is a blog post from some one with a similar opinion:

    http://caffertyfile.blogs.cnn.com/2009/01/21/obama’s-rise-to-president-what-surprises-you/

    The argument here is that Obama won because he didn't run as a black man. So I think it's unfortunate that everyone is celebrating his skin color. It's a step backwards.
     
  13. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Lt. Valeris, not the end.

    You give a compelling argument on strictly logical terms. Here however we deal with emotions which by definition are not logical. Right or wrong, "white pride" is perceived as racist because we as a race (and males as a gender) have already acheived much more than any minority race in this country. The kind of ebullient racial pride demonstrated by blacks during the inauguration would not be an appropriate response from a race or gender who's already been in control of the country for nearly 240 years.

    The vast majority of this country's power structure (CEOs, government officials, judges, bankers, etc.) in this country are still white males, and up until now, 43 of 44 presidents have been white males. I haven't bothered to look up demographics here, but it's a safe wager that the proportion of white males in power positions is not representative of the population.

    To give a simple analogy: if the Yankees won 40 World Series in a row, eventually it would stop being special to them. An outpouring of celebration from New York would be perceived by non-Yankees fans as rubbing it in. Conversely, the first time a team other than the Yankees won one, a response from their fan base that went a little beyond the norm in terms of exuberance would not be unexpected nor viewed in the same negative light as a similar response from Yankees fans. Fair? Maybe, maybe not, but human nonetheless.
     
  14. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    The argument given is true. Jackson and Sharpton didn't know how to win respect and Obama does.

    However a scant 54 years ago, less than a human lifetime, we had white bus drivers telling blacks to get to the back of the bus.

    For us in that short span of years to have grown to the point where we can elect a black man to our highest office, I indeed find that worthy of celebration.

    To call it a step backwards is tantamount to responding to Obama's election by saying, "See? We aren't racist," and thinking that makes everything better.
     
  15. OsIriS

    OsIriS Peasant

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    True, but we're still backwards in our thinking. America still has litmus tests on who can and can't be elected -- the biggest one is religion. I'd see it as a bigger step forward the minute a non-Christian were to be elected president. And woe be to any homosexual who would try to run, experience or no experience.

    And come on, Al Sharpton was never a serious candidate for president. The man is a media whore and nothing else. Jesse Jackson at least had a small shot the first time he ran, but his bitterness after having not won the Democratic nomination the first time got to him.

    I think if Colin Powell had run against Bush in the primaries in 2000, he would have been elected over Gore.
     
  16. SpocKirk

    SpocKirk Forum Moderator and Donator

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    I would have voted for him in the primaries. It was obviously a race decision when Colin Powell supported Obama, since most of Obama's stances are contrary to Powell's.
     
  17. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    I think the lesson to be learned from Obama is that those litmus tests need not apply. Obama never subjected himself to the racial litmus test. He didn't run as a black person and he therefore invalidated the entire debate.

    I would argue that our societal problems are not real. They are mere reflections of our personal demons. For example, a person who hates blacks will act hostilely towards them thereby incurring unfriendly reciprocations that are validating of the original hatred. Obama doesn't have those demons to reflect.
     
  18. Lurk

    Lurk Peasant and Donator

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    It's naive to think that sexism, racism, and bigotry are not alive and well in certain areas of this country.
     
  19. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    I agree.
     
  20. Jakeman

    Jakeman MSC Founder and Donator

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    Here is a perfect example:

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/19/chimp.cartoon.react/index.html

    I personally was not offended in the slightest by the cartoon. I perceived no insinuation that the cartoon is about police murdering black people. For me it was quite clear that the punchline is that the stimulus bill is so ridiculous that a monkey could have written it.

    But many people (not just blacks) are deeply offended and are taking to protests over the cartoon. Their hatred is a reflection of their perceptions and personal demons. Overcome those demons and the entire debacle is invalidated, just as it is for me, regardless of the intentions of the cartoon author, be they racist or not. Although my point is better made if you make the arguably safe assumption that the cartoon author did not intend a racist message. What cartoonist in their right mind would publish a joke about killing blacks, or about killing the president? Career over.

    I hate myself and consider myself subject to my own criticism.
     

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