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Topic: Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=32, No=15 | 8/30/2003 1:43:24 PM PDT 
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NiandraLaDesView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Azeroth
141. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=32, No=15 | 8/30/2003 1:43:24 PM PDT
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My initial thought on it: No

My second thought: Well, if yes, then it should be very very very very hard. We don't want to much of the team winner joiners, and It would create confusion in major PvP battles AKA Wars.

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SkiddyView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Northrend
142. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=32, No=15 | 8/30/2003 1:51:33 PM PDT
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my opinion? No. Don't allow changing factions whats the point in it?

For obvious reasons it has to be VERY hard to switch sides, but once you do it you lose any friends you made playing for you old faction, and you will have made a few in the time it takes for you to complete that particular quest or whatever.

And if you want to play with your friends, play a different race! It'd be a hell of a lot quicker, easier and probably more fun to just start on the same side as them. Who wants to not play with people they know for weeks, just for the privelage of being such and such a race? i certainly don't
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Earth_MageView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Azeroth
Clan: PoCU
143. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=32, No=15 | 8/30/2003 1:58:16 PM PDT
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Yes. I agree with msc_Jakeman. We should be able to change factions evectivly like he said. But I think it should be very very hard. That way only people who really want to and are extreamly dedicated can change. This way both faction arent over crouded with races from the opposite faction
~Earth_Mage~
ValjiinView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Lordaeron
144. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=32, No=15 | 8/30/2003 1:59:48 PM PDT
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Yes.
I really want to be Undead, but I hate the Horde. If I have to be stuck with one side, I'd rather be in those great Human cities.
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msc_JakemanView All Posts by This User

Gateway: USWest
145. Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=35, N=17 | 8/30/2003 2:18:58 PM PDT
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Q u o t e:
Ok this is how i see it. Faction change can be good like the way the poster stated it. The problem is that tons of people will be changing their factions which will result in total confusion. You will not know whether that person is in your faction or whether he is still loyal to his fraction. This will create utter confusion. And if you give the idea of having something on top of their head or a green/red circle around them to see whether he is in your clan would totally ruin the game. I mean imagine that your walking and u see a battle taking place. You first will have to see who is on your faction and not. This will deffinitally slow down and take the fun out of the game.

Changing fraction is a good idea, but very hard to implement without slowing down and taking the fun out of the game.


Addressing your concerns:
I can definitely see how this could be a problem. However, I think the problems you are describing would be minimized if the ability to change factions was implemented correctly and realistically.

Clarification:
Building on my suggestion, changing factions would result in prejudice and hardships which would, in theory, offset the problems you are predicting.

For example, if a Horde member sides with the Alliance, then Alliance members that don't know this person may not want to help or group with him because he is a Horde race. Many of the faction separations that are overcome by effectively changing factions would require the consent of the members of the opposite faction, like joining groups with opposite faction members. In this way, effectively changing factions would only be for people that have friends they can play with in the opposite faction, not for anyone who wants to change on a whim.

Following my above example, these hardships would not only be player enforced. This same Horde character would lose his standing with his own faction resulting in consequences like not being able to enter Horde towns. So this character would go to Alliance towns instead where the vendors would charge him much higher prices than everyone else.

Conclusion:
My suggestion for changing factions can be implemented in a way that makes it an unattractive thing to do for many people. But if you have friends in the opposite faction that can help you, at least you would have a way to play with them... at a cost.

Yes=35
No=17
Paul_BendenView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Lordaeron
146. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=35, N=17 | 8/30/2003 2:24:47 PM PDT
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Why in the world would people want to change their faction and then be hated by almost everyone?

For the most part, people seem to want to change factions so that they can play with their friends. However, the majority seem to agree that changing factions should be hard and should come with penalties.

I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't really be interested in a system like that just so that I could group with my friends...

In an MMORPG drastically reducing the people you can group with just seems wrong to me.. Changing factions would mean going from being able to group with half the server to only being able to group with just a few people.



If an edit I make is for anything other than a spelling error, I'll say so

The one formally known as Juruski with 467 posts
msc_JakemanView All Posts by This User

Gateway: USWest
147. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/30/2003 2:58:15 PM PDT
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Q u o t e:
Why in the world would people want to change their faction and then be hated by almost everyone?

For the most part, people seem to want to change factions so that they can play with their friends.


You answered your own question. ;)

Yes=35
No=18
Earth_MageView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Azeroth
Clan: PoCU
148. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/30/2003 3:15:17 PM PDT
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Yep, we must be able to change factions so we can group and guild with our friends of the other faction. Some people say just make more than one char. But what if I just want one main char. Others say convince your friends to play on your faction or play on theirs. What if they dont want to and you dont want to? Then what do you do? You go through the painstakeing but sucssesfull operation of changeing factions. So all in all there must be a way.
~Earth_Mage~
StraylightView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Azeroth
149. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/30/2003 3:22:23 PM PDT
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I vote for letting people actually change factions but not effectively for two main reasons.

First, Arthas changes faction to undead, then Hellscream joins the Burning Legion, then Illidian starts his own faction, The Blood Elf hero joins Illidian, Sylvanas starts here own Forsaken faction and The Dreadlord joins it from the burning legion. Arthas also betrays the lich king at the end. All of these people are more or less betraying their old faction for another. The point is that (for various reasons) people do change their faction in WC3.

Second, It's just realistic that, durring a time of war, both sides would welcome traitors. If the orcs and humans can unite to face the burning legion they will put up with help from trators to fight eachother. I can't imagine why an RPG like this would simply ignore faction standings.

However I would rather have actual then effective changes of faction if I had to choose, because theres this PVP territorial battle going on. If you were grouping with some people by an effective change of faction it really doesn't make sense to then fight with them an hour later with loto you got together. Personally I don't care but from a roleplaying perspective it doesn't make much sense.

Changeing faction advantages:

+could see more of the game on a single charracter
+can group with friends
+orcs will not get overwhealmed by the 50% of the WOW population that will go NE hunter (jk)

[Edit] my thoughts = earth mage exactly

-SL

[ post edited by Straylight ]

PanzerDragonView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Lordaeron
150. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/30/2003 3:29:35 PM PDT
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I think there should be quests that let you change your faction effectivly and quests that let you stay in towns that arent your faction. they could have a quest for every town that you have to do in order to go in the town if your a different faction. To like prove yourself.

yes to effectivly

people should be able to choose if they want to change completely of just party with the other faction.

yes to actualy

cause throughout the warcraft3 and FtF factions have been changed and new factions created like Illiaden and the Blood Elves switched from the alliance to work with Illiaden. Arthas sorta left the scourge for the Lich King and his followers. so both effectivly and actualy could work. I think you should just be able to choose.

[ post edited by PanzerDragon ]


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DaidenView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Azeroth
Clan: SiE
151. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/30/2003 3:30:11 PM PDT
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I vote no.
Zug zug.
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St0neh0usEView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Azeroth
152. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/30/2003 3:31:22 PM PDT
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I think it's a really good Idea...........yes
To destroy the opponent in front of you-annihilation of things that stand in the way of peace, justice and humanity.
NaeadilView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Azeroth
153. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/30/2003 4:33:21 PM PDT
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I vote no.
The_Lost_AlienView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Lordaeron
154. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/30/2003 5:04:29 PM PDT
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I am against the whole "I wanna group with my buddy!!" argument.

But I am FOR changing factions (either one will work).

People already mentioned all the storyline reasons that support faction changes (even in the FIRST Warcraft game you end up fighting your own race in one mission).

Really, I think the Hard Faction stance seems a bit silly, with many of the features that were promised: we can learn the other language, we can do neutral quests so they don't kill us on sight... Of course, it's possible many of these things were removed since the time we were told about them. However, if they were not, they are sort of pointless if the factions are as solid as they say. It’s also quite obvious that the current Alpha Testers aren’t even playing under the faction restrictions.

I propose that there should be degrees of faction altering, which would be done through Quests. You begin as an extreme member of your faction, but if you do a few neutral quests, your character may be willing to group with some members of the enemy race (but only if they altered their own faction through their gameplay, to allow for it as well).

Actually, never mind. Just put me down as a Yes.
MitadView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Azeroth
155. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=35, No=18 | 8/30/2003 5:13:29 PM PDT
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YES to the original idea
Now, Rescuing Anya - that's good.
Talking to me while Nihlathak hands over the relic to Baal - uh... that's bad.Larzuk
msc_JakemanView All Posts by This User

Gateway: USWest
156. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=35, No=18 | 8/30/2003 6:02:42 PM PDT
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Yes=42
No=20
stormlightView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Lordaeron
157. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=42, No=20 | 8/30/2003 6:28:23 PM PDT
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Yes I am in favor of being able to Effectively change.

I see no reason why being able to group with other races from opposing factions in certain situations is a bad thing. I think it perfectly reasonable that all the races could group to say confront a common foe, or to complete a common task. I also see no reason why the following day these same characters could not then face each other on the battlefield. I think you could come up with endless reasons to support this. Say some Orcs group with Humans; well the Orcs could be “using” the humans. I think that it opens the doors for so many RP opportunities that it would be a shame to leave the possibility out.

I also think that some additions to how factions are structured should be implemented. I think that all players should start out being effectively neutral. In order to “join” up with your racially correct faction players should be required to reach at least say level 5. They should need to complete a series of quests to raise their status. I see being “in” a faction as more of actually supporting the ideals laid down by that group. In this case it is supporting the racial war. So I think it should be treated more as “joining” the military. The other players would be the general public. Obviously to participate in things like mass PvP battles and guilds and such you would need to “join”. There would also be added benefits with having access to trainers and resources etc. With enough benefits, most players would want to “join”.

I think there should be a neutral or independent faction status. This is to allow for outcasts, criminals, spies, bounty hunters etc. Now, if you were to choose this factional status, you would be denied access to the general publics towns and resources, quests etc. After all, they would not want to fraternize with scoundrels and it is a difficult life to be that of an outcast. However I think that it allows players the ability to take on this more difficult RP choice. It adds to the dynamics of the world.

Yes this is a game and yes it is WarCraft, but it is also an MMORPG. To keep it limited to just two factions and racial warfare is severely limiting and simplistic. What makes a game world great is the ability to have dynamic conflict. With the main focus being on the two large factions and the racial war, the ability to choose otherwise helps add more layers of drama and conflict to the game. It opens up inner racial conflicts. I think anything that helps to generate more RP opportunities will ultimately add to the game. There are so many examples in the history of WC to support this; it seems silly to all of a sudden have every creature in the land possessed by a simple one-minded nature of two sides.

I could easily write 10 pages on how this would add to the game, but I will stop here. Many others have posted similar ideas and I have yet to read a convincing idea to the contrary.

I do however believe that if it even is allowable to Actually switch sides, it needs to be extremely difficult and you could never achieve full acceptance. Say for example in the case of a Human joining the horde, while certain characters might accept you, the general populace would still see you as a filthy Human.

With joining being an option, it needs be something that you can’t simply turn on and off. Players should be required to say go and pledge their allegiance to an NPC lord for the said faction. Or conversely would need to renounce their status. This would avoid sudden switching of sides, which I agree would screw up PvP battles. I also don't think that you should be allowed to go back and forth, once you go into any faction seriously, you are kind of stuck. Once a traitor, always a traitor.

[ post edited by stormlight ]

CyrusSoulfireView All Posts by This User

Gateway: USEast
158. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=42, No=20 | 8/30/2003 6:34:46 PM PDT
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Anyone think that Blizzard will read this? I hope they do, it could possibly make the game even better than it would have originally been.
As one falls, another arises...


Chivalry shall always be.
msc_JakemanView All Posts by This User

Gateway: USWest
159. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/30/2003 6:38:27 PM PDT
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Q u o t e:
Anyone think that Blizzard will read this? I hope they do, it could possibly make the game even better than it would have originally been.


I certainly hope they read it. I will continue to watch this thread closely and update the tally whenever some one votes. And because Blizzard prunes old threads, I have been saving the pages of this thread to my hard drive so I can rehost them somewhere else if this thread is pruned.

Yes=43
No=20
CyrusSoulfireView All Posts by This User

Gateway: USEast
160. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/30/2003 6:41:06 PM PDT
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I've actually already voted on like page... one or two I believe. I hope that extra tally wasn't mine >_< but if we can vote more than once you can count me in again ^_^
As one falls, another arises...


Chivalry shall always be.
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