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Topic: Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=44, No=23 | 8/31/2003 9:24:54 AM PDT 
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Ritar_clawView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Lordaeron
181. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=44, No=23 | 8/31/2003 9:24:54 AM PDT
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It totally !&$%s up the story while its good for your gameplay its not good for my gameplay. You see if I had a friend who wanted to play horde I'd play horde, if I had a friend who wanted to play alliance guess what I'm not gonna #@%$! because I can't play an orc with his NE or whatever. Ughh... and I'm not a hardcore gamer so while diverting my attention will cost my characters quite a few levels, guess what I get better sleep at night knowing that my characters are part of a story! This was my main beef with Shadowbane it had zero story. Now, I'm not an RP but I love the rich immersive story of the Warcraft Universe all the reasons that this ruins the story I've already listed on a previous page so I'm not going to reiterate them. Blizzard knows what they are doing with the factions and PvP everyone just needs to get off their back :(
We did inititally try to see if there were ways to make the game free per month. - GFrazier.

For the Burning Legion - Lich.
Temp_TZView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Azeroth
182. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=44, No=23 | 8/31/2003 9:31:30 AM PDT
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Im curious: How would factions destroy gameplay?

Yes, you'll probably be limited to certain areas in the World, but this ENHANCES the feeling of the lore in the War Craft universe. It also helps inmersing you in quests, etc.

To the person who posted the ideas that you might have the option of changing faction for teaming purpose rather than actually leaving your faction, I ask you: How would prevent exploitation in pvp? For instance, Im an alliance member....I see an Orc, and I begin attacking him...as I am about to kill him (close fight) a human ally of mine comes and heals him. Its unfair and the possibility of exploits is large. The only way this could work would be for exp, but still, I believe fations enhances the game tremendously more than it destroys it

From what I gather, the only difference in races are the character models/quests, because we aren't imposed stats. So in the end, playing a Human Priest would be the same as playing an undead priest, the difference being, it would be your character customization that makes him unique.

Ritar_clawView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Lordaeron
183. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=44, No=23 | 8/31/2003 9:33:54 AM PDT
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Thank god someone with enough intelligence to realize that factions are good for WoW... :) don't mean to bash all of you pro-malleable faction guys but the idea is crap. :P
We did inititally try to see if there were ways to make the game free per month. - GFrazier.

For the Burning Legion - Lich.
CyrusSoulfireView All Posts by This User

Gateway: USEast
184. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=44, No=23 | 8/31/2003 9:37:31 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:
Im curious: How would factions destroy gameplay?

Yes, you'll probably be limited to certain areas in the World, but this ENHANCES the feeling of the lore in the War Craft universe. It also helps inmersing you in quests, etc.

To the person who posted the ideas that you might have the option of changing faction for teaming purpose rather than actually leaving your faction, I ask you: How would prevent exploitation in pvp? For instance, Im an alliance member....I see an Orc, and I begin attacking him...as I am about to kill him (close fight) a human ally of mine comes and heals him. Its unfair and the possibility of exploits is large. The only way this could work would be for exp, but still, I believe fations enhances the game tremendously more than it destroys it

From what I gather, the only difference in races are the character models/quests, because we aren't imposed stats. So in the end, playing a Human Priest would be the same as playing an undead priest, the difference being, it would be your character customization that makes him unique.




Your probably the only person who posted something intellegent enough to make me consider no faction changes. Thanks you.
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StraylightView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Azeroth
185. Replies | 8/31/2003 10:14:56 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:
To the person who posted the ideas that you might have the option of changing faction for teaming purpose rather than actually leaving your faction, I ask you: How would prevent exploitation in pvp? For instance, Im an alliance member....I see an Orc, and I begin attacking him...as I am about to kill him (close fight) a human ally of mine comes and heals him. Its unfair and the possibility of exploits is large. The only way this could work would be for exp, but still, I believe fations enhances the game tremendously more than it destroys it


This is why I don't think you should be able to kinda sorta change factions. You should be on one side or another compleatly but, while your starting faction should be based on race, a player's actions should decide what faction he ultimately ends up on. The only real objection to this is that the shaman and pally class would appear on both sides (they could restrict I suppose) People objecting to the RP aspect of this should play the WC3 and TFT single player campaigns. So many betrayals and people either joining a new faction or starting one of their own that it gets anoying when you keep fighting the people you helped build up last mission.


Q u o t e:
From what I gather, the only difference in races are the character models/quests, because we aren't imposed stats. So in the end, playing a Human Priest would be the same as playing an undead priest, the difference being, it would be your character customization that makes him unique.


Really? I gathered that at level 40 you became a "hero" class. Like human mage = archmage or NE hunter = deomon hunter. Are these changes just a new title thing or do you actually get different skills? I thought you did.

[ post edited by Straylight ]

oms)randemheroView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Lordaeron
Clan: oMs
186. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=44, No=23 | 8/31/2003 10:21:42 AM PDT
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i am going to say yes, because i think if blizz makes a logical way to switch factions then i am fine with it.
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1 tauren + 1 gnome = 1 big mess
3 undead + 1 gnome = 15
1 tauren + 1 nightelf = 1 ugly baby"
Dark_strangerView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Northrend
187. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/31/2003 11:04:41 AM PDT
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Effectivly not accutally.
Who ever said it was the Darkness which held the danger.
LAZREKView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Azeroth
188. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/31/2003 11:16:59 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:
They are only overwhelming popular by the idiots that traverse the forums.

Uh, you are traversing the forums, IDIOT =P


Q u o t e:
The PvP people want factions because that increase their ability to PvP

Having the ability to attack your own faction would increase your ability to PvP.

Here I'll try to spell it down for you since you seem to be having trouble understanding this fact.

# of factions - # of factions you cannot attack = # of factions you can attack

your case (which in your opinion increases the ability for PvP?)

2(faction) - 1(faction) = 1(faction)

my case which DOES increase the ability for PvP!

2(faction) - 0(faction) = 2(faction)

Now if I'm a PvP which would I rather have in my cross-hairs, 1 faction or 2?

What? too many numbers? Sorry I forgot who I was talking to here... how about this one, I think even YOU can grasp this formula:

No limitations on targets = hey look MORE TARGETS!

vote: YES for switching Effectively

:edit:
added mathematical formulas

[ post edited by LAZREK ]


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Ritar_clawView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Lordaeron
189. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/31/2003 11:22:38 AM PDT
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Yes while I may be included in my generalization that idiots traverse these forums seeing as how my quote referred to the fact that the idea is liked by idiots I think shields me from that. I also had an extremely well though out post on page whatever, earlier on the post that was totally ignored so I merely tried to show how stupid this whole idea is. Having the ability of PvP someone is better than not being able to right?

0 targets to kill because no one agreed to duel
or x targets because they are the opposing faction in a faction PvP zone. I will copy my earlier post and you can see why you are the fool and not me.

Edit: adding my original post.

Q u o t e:

Changing factions is probably going to be the most whined about thing on this entire board. Now even if we look beyond continuity of the universe which can easily be used both ways to suggest either case is valid. We need to look at the bigger picture. The picture that isn't in Warcraft but at the picture of the painter. Blizzard is making WoW faction-based and they realized that a proper faction based system doesn't allow just anyone to switch sides because they complete some "uber" quests or whatever. To switch factions/sides is something totally beyond the scope of a MMO because the issue touches on morality and a whole $!@%load of philosophical topics that obviously are way to deep to discuss on this forum, and to broad in scope to include in a MMO.

Ok now coming back to continuity, suppose that Zigon and Deathcraft hated each other. Now suppose that Zigon is fighting for the Horde, while Deathcraft fights for the alliance. (note: if this portrayal is inaccurate its merely a hypothetical situation) Ok now say I'm Deathcraft's friend, he tells me about how awful a person Zigon is and since I've never met him I naturally believe my friend. So now I hate Zigon too. Will I look past his bias to see the truth, hmm... maybe but with a war going on I highly doubt it. Continuing the example, I proceed to assume everyone in Zigon's faction is a horrible evil monster. Now I grow older, raise my kids and what do I pass on to them???? Well, duh my hatred for Zigon's faction.

This is the situation of WoW these aren't the original Orcs and Humans meeting each other and deciding on a personal basis, they are operating under a learned bias from their parents who fought in the second war, and the orcs grew up in the interment camps. Thus humans and orcs are going to hate other, Trolls also have considerable reasons to hate Elves and humans so they are added to the equation. Dwarves hate Orcs they are in as well, as are Gnomes for similar reasons. UD obviously are quite hated/mistrusted by both sides. The only races that even has a chance to switch sides are Tauren and NE. Even at that though Taurens are known allies of the orcs so they are much less likely to be accepted by the Alliance. NE if they switched factions would be to their own faction and would sit the war out.

Yea some people overcome their prejudice and bias and say hey Maybe all these bias' are wrong. But the chance for them to encounter someone of like thinking on the other side is pretty low. However, it does happen but they are only accepted by each other, a NE defector to the Horde would be hated by his brothers and mistrusted and maligned by the horde with the exception of the few orcs/taurens or whatever he made friends with. (excuse my not using the generic pronouns but they are a pain in the ass). So obviously there is a huge amount of stuff to take into account for either way about this topic. About the Benedict Arnold statement he is so renowned because he's just about the only military traitor during that war which is something of a shock when you consider all of the issues, primarily the fact that England was pretty much winning the whole damn war.

If you want people to switch factions for Power then you need to find a faction that will provide that power. The horde isn't significantly more powerful than the alliance, nor is the alliance that much more powerful than the horde. Power hunger people in either faction would ally with groups like the Burning Legion or maybe the Undead Scourge. That of course is a totally different matter. In essence what I'm saying is for the amount of people who want to change factions just to "play" with their friends is not consistant with the actual number of traitors that "might" betray their faction at any given time.

Now in the cases of Alterac and the Yellow clan in War2exp forgot their name. :( They switched sides for power and out of fear neither wanted to lose the war so they were prepared to sell their own brothers out to surive. Guess what though, after what happened to them I think that will lower the numbers of traitors. Alterac was decimated by the humans, and that Yellow clan probably really enjoyed its time in the internment camps provided they even made it off Draenor of course. :) Doomhammer siezing control isn't an example of switching factions. :D How anyone could have thought that or even seen fit to mention it is beyond me. Doomhammer merely noticed that Blackhand was not a very good Warchief, so he decided that he would be a better one. :)

Oh btw if I missed anything be sure and tell me so I can provide further reasons why if this idea is implemented it would break the continuity of the Warcraft Universe. Its ok for story writers to script betrayal, its another for players to script betrayal.

If anything is mispelled please forgive me this is probably my longest post ever. :)

Edit: please note that wanting to switch factions for increased content is stupid, they coded seperate content for each faction for a reason.

[ post edited by Ritar_claw ]


We did inititally try to see if there were ways to make the game free per month. - GFrazier.

For the Burning Legion - Lich.
LAZREKView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Azeroth
190. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/31/2003 11:29:11 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:
Yes while I may be included in my generalization that idiots traverse these forums seeing as how my quote referred to the fact that the idea is liked by idiots I think shields me from that
I don't

And did I say anything about deuling? No. Just have everyone open to attack at all times! If you don't like getting killed by other players... GROW STRONGER!

[ post edited by LAZREK ]


Real Men wear Kilts.
If it isn't Scottish it's crap!
AckranomeView All Posts by This User

Gateway: USWest
191. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/31/2003 11:30:53 AM PDT
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I think there should be the ability to change faction over time.

I mean there were traitors in the horde and in the alliance in Warcraft II, so there is no reason that an Orc couldn't eventually switch sides by doing horribly nasty stuff to it's own race/faction.
Hinc quam sic calamus sævior ense, patet. The pen is worse than the sword. -- Robert Burton
dewmonsterView All Posts by This User

Gateway: USEast
192. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/31/2003 11:38:05 AM PDT
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i dont mean to be a flamer but that is stupid to say, i mean blizzard made it so its the horde v alliance and thats how it goes....so no one wants to hear your ideas okay not even blizz does if they thought it was a good idea then theyd do that but they obviously dont and since u dont make games then just live with it
13L00DM00NView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Azeroth
Clan: GoA
193. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/31/2003 11:50:47 AM PDT
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Since these forums were presumeably made so Blizzard could interact with it's fans, that's a curious attitude.

Reminds me of a poodle I once had. Damn thing would roll over and play dead if it thought you were mad at it.

As for me, I'm not afraid to voice my opinion, or ask for changes if I think they're needed.

I'm not a poodle though.

[ post edited by 13L00DM00N ]


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JookaView All Posts by This User

Gateway: USWest
194. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=44, No=23 | 8/31/2003 11:59:02 AM PDT
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I would only want it to be possible to switch factions if it was EXTREMELY hard to achieve, so it was a EXTREMELY RARE sight, not a daily encounter.
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Ritar_clawView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Lordaeron
195. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=44, No=23 | 8/31/2003 12:10:45 PM PDT
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I'm not saying that you should accept what Blizzard has done at face value if you'd read my whole damn post you'd realize that they are countless reasons why you should move on past changing factions the least of which is the complicated nature of betrayal. I obviously can't affect your opinions but yes Blizzard did create these forums to hear opinions, I am merely voicing mine on this particular topic, on other topcis I have taken to attempt to get Blizzard to change the game, but I have never actually tried to get them to change their story! Faction switching is not supported by the story for the simple reason that if everyone on this forum that wanted to change factions so as to play their orc with their friends the whole faction scheme would be so messed up as to make it useless. We might as well just have open PvP and no factions... damn.

Oh and I realize you were referring to open PvP but get over it on the main servers Blizzard is not including open PvP, so being able to fight factional PvP is a great boon because its less optional than duels to which you say yes or no. Please just let this thread die, its beating a dead horse and aggravating me. Wait until Blizzard releases more info about the faction system before you act like your idea will make it better...
We did inititally try to see if there were ways to make the game free per month. - GFrazier.

For the Burning Legion - Lich.
AratheView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Azeroth
196. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=44, No=23 | 8/31/2003 12:15:06 PM PDT
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if pvp is gonna be pointless except for cosmetic changes(they have said that) in chars we should be able to switch cause otherwise its just dumb.
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yobyobView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Northrend
Clan: FTF
197. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=44, No=23 | 8/31/2003 12:17:24 PM PDT
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I will be so good to make possible a character to change faction (any guys can be free to choose is camps) but need to make it hard and take time.
Working faction by quest or killing things
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msc_JakemanView All Posts by This User

Gateway: USWest
198. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions | 8/31/2003 12:24:08 PM PDT
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Note to all about voting:
Please state your vote as a Yes or No. There are several posts from people on the last page that are probably Yes and No votes, but they didn't clearly say so. I don't want any misunderstanding on votes, so please be clear.

Let me address some of your concerns as they relate to my suggestion. Concerns:

1) Not following the storyline / lore. Without getting too wordy, and at the risk of arguing circularly... what war story doesn't have defectors and sympathizers? Alexstrazsa also made a good reference:


Q u o t e:
Similarly to how Thrall once gained the favor of humans and lived with them, I imagine some humans might like orcs better, and want to go hang out with them instead. It's fine by me.


2. Quote from Ritar_claw:

Q u o t e:
The only people who don't want factions or want stupid soft Malleable factions are idiots who care nothing for the story and just wanna play with their friends and consider that more important than the story. Get over yourselves you are not that important. There is a considerable number of people who will play the game whether you do or not, so shove off!

Like I said once before, I can't speak for everyone, but I for one definitely care about the story (see #1 above). I am just trying to see where everyone stands on my suggestion by taking a vote. I am being very objective about this. So far it looks like the Yes's are winning by a large margin.

3. Quote from Temp_TZ:

Q u o t e:
How would prevent exploitation in pvp? For instance, Im an alliance member....I see an Orc, and I begin attacking him...as I am about to kill him (close fight) a human ally of mine comes and heals him. Its unfair and the possibility of exploits is large. The only way this could work would be for exp, but still, I believe fations enhances the game tremendously more than it destroys it.

That would be an exploit with or without my suggestion. For example, two Alliance members agree to a duel, and one of them has an Alliance friend hiding in the bushes ready to heal. We don't know yet how the game will handle that situation, but it makes more sense that two people who have agreed to a duel (PvP is consensual in WoW) would be isolated from help from the rest of the world.

Yes=52
No=23

[ post edited by msc_Jakeman ]

human_alliesView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Azeroth
199. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=52, No=23 | 8/31/2003 11:58:01 PM PDT
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im sorry. picture this:

a band of 6 humans attacking orcs with 2 alliace members.. me: Wtf is going on.. damn tker!
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AlexstrazsaView All Posts by This User

Gateway: Lordaeron
200. Re: Suggestion: Changing factions - Yes=52, No=23 | 9/1/2003 11:10:46 AM PDT
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human_allies: It wouldn't be officially TKing. His name would probably appear in red like enemies do, and you'd be able to take out your anger that he defected to the Horde and slaughter him. :) Yes, the character's appearance may throw you off at first, but when all else fails, check the name. I believe allied or party members names show up in that yellowy color? Not sure.

I'd be fine with it, but then, I hope not alot of people do it. I know many will because they're punks who don't roleplay and just want to hang out with their guild. Me, I want an only Night Elf guild, and I'm never going to join any that allow Horde characters, though I might consider other Alliance characters. I prefer "realism" in keeping with the WC canon plot, as in, the majority of humans do not like orcs. The majority of orcs do not like humans, most Undead do not like humans/night elves and so forth, so partying together would be... insane.
But since there's no way to limit how many people would switch sides, I'd say make the quests tough and rather extensive. Not just switch and switch back whenever you want. Trust is hard to gain.
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